one for the waders

[Piker20 0]

I didn't realise there was a whole shuffle thing. I thought it would be harming my chances disturbing the bottom. Once as a lad, I was on a small river when a man came down stream with his hounds hunting mink and the river turned into cloudy mud, caught some of my best fish after that.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

Yeah Colin some "fisherman" stir up the bottom a bit to knock chum up and drift their nymphs in the silt I seen a guy doing it on my home river and he had like 8 trout on a stringer hanging off of his side so I called my buddy that is the local dnr officer to let him know this guy had way more trout then his 3 limit the state ended up with a new truck, a new sage rod with a high dollar reel, plus a bunch of flies,tippets,a net, a very nice chestpack, and like $6000 in fines and restitution. I seen the stuff at the state auction a few months after the incident. I agree if its legal then go ahead and do it if you want but to me it is unethical kind of like fencing in a 10 acre parcel with 15 foot fence and throwing in 6 mature bucks with a feeder in the middle of a 200 yard clearing just to shoot a deer worth scoring.

[Piker20 0]

I'm still not convinced I would use it as an actual tactic. I'll stick to my careful wading and aim to work up from downstream.

[flytyinfreak 0]

Don't pigeon hole your fishin'. The spot to stand is where the best presentation is achieved. If it requires you to kneel behind a rock and roll cast down and across cac- handed then by all means do so. I was using the last scenario for example only, I didn't have to cakhand the cast, but I did have to roll cast kneeling behind a medium sized rock to get the fish I was after. The point is presentation presentation presentation. I normally fish some fairly technical water in Eastern Idaho/Yellowstone and I've learned first hand its not as simple as being upstream or down, its about being where you need to be to get the fly to the fish so that he will eat it. whats the use of a good drift if the fish won't eat the fly? MY biggest gripe with the upstream casting mindset is that the fish get a look at my fly line and or tippet before they see my fly. This is all based on dry fly fishing. If you want to talk streamers or nymphing that's a different story, fopr a different post.

[Piker20 0]

I didn't phrase my initial query too well. I was really asking about the physical act of wading if you have a choice. Walk upstream like a sneaky ninja or downstream and whether down stream put fish down due to bottom silt etc being disturbed. But as some replies say, the silt stuff seems to attract the fish. I agree that the cast direction is all about catching the fish and sometimes walking up or down isn't the problem.

[Crackaig 0]

Just to echo a previous post its all about presentation. Waders are there to enable you to present the fly, just because you are clad in chest waders doesn't mean that you have to spend the whole day 2 inches from the top of them. One friend of mine I would label as a "paddler". If he is wearing waders he just has to wade. I'm looking for the opportunity to take a fish right behind him. I've seen him wade past fish to get further out. More often I'll wear waders so I can sit down without getting a wet backside. If you are sneaking about a pair of these are very useful. They will save your waders.

 

If you are fishing imitative flies then think about how the natural behaves. North Country Spiders, for example, imitate nymphs and drowned adults. How many of these are able to swim across even a weak current? Yet many people advocate swinging them this way. In the words of TE Pritt "'Tis the devils work my son, and do not let me catch you about it". Another consideration is hooking the fish. Fishing downstream means when you tighten into a fish you are pulling the fly away from the fish. You will miss a lot of takes that way. Especially with small flies. Another problem to overcome casting downstream is that, in order to dead drift flies, you need slack line between you and the fish. All that slack line slows down the strike when a fish takes. So you are trying to tighten into a fish in a very precise time window (when the fish has its mouth shut), with slack line slowing the setting of the hook. Talk about making it difficult for yourself!

 

When wading there is also safety to consider. If you are deeper than your knees, a strong current can take your knees out from under you if you face downstream.

 

The act of shuffling your feet and fishing downstream is only one step away from "clodding", and will see you banned on many UK waters. However it is the original way to fish a Klinkhamer. Downstream is also the only way to fish an emerging Yellow May Dun effectively. These emerge sub surface, rise to the surface and almost immediately take to the wing. If you tie the brightest yellow Klinkhammer make a short downstream cast and hold tight the fly will sink. Then let out line so it drifts downstream and rises. When it breaks the surface its time to cast again. I've only ever known hatches of Yellow May Duns significant enough to be worth imitating on the river Ribble. Usually you may see two or three in a full days fishing. In a really heavy hatch on the Ribble I've seen 30 to 40. Hardly the amount to make this a major tactic.

 

Generally my practise is while fishing to progress upstream. If I am working downstream I'll walk to the bottom of a pool and fish up it. then walk down to the next and fish up that. Of course working this way means you can end up walking 3 times the distance compared to fishing the same water from a downstream starting point. Here in the UK we have very different access rules. Often anglers in the States will have only one or two fixed entry points, and must remain below the high water mark at other times. Such restrictions will greatly affect the way you go about fishing the water. Here that isn't a consideration. Once you have permission to access the water you can wander where you will.

 

If you like, when the new season starts, and is well underway, say late April or beyond, we can have a day on the top length of the Helmsdale. There is some very good trout fishing up there, with the possibility of a silver tourist. Then we can go through some of the problems practically.

 

Cheers,

C.

[sandflyx 0]

I've never found it to be that simple. I definitely prefer wading upstream on smaller high gradient streams, but most streams (20' or more across), I go either way, depending on conditions, and whether or not there are other fishermen upstream or downstream. If the water is clear, casting over the fish tends to spook them, but if there is a bit of color or significant turbulence, it's not a problem.

 

I guess my real preference is to fish from one side, casting up and across with dry flies, or down and across with wets or nymphs. I've had considerable success fishing a soft hackle or caddis on a across and down swing.

I like to skitter drys down stream as well and fish streamers upstream.

[clarkii 0]

The spot to stand is where the best presentation is achieved.

^ yep-

 

my question would be- what smart fisherman would fish upstream from a starting point and not fish on the way back?

and- im not sure about this whole san juan shuffle stuff- but in the small clear mountain streams i fish- any disturbance has the potential to put the fish down- you tread soft...

 

Clarkii.

[DryFlies4Life 0]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="clarkii" data-cid="529454" data-time="1357526973"><p>

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="flytyinfreak" data-cid="529235" data-time="1357431935"><p>The spot to stand is where the best presentation is achieved.</p></blockquote>

^ yep-<br />

<br />

my question would be- what smart fisherman would fish upstream from a starting point and not fish on the way back?<br />

and- im not sure about this whole san juan shuffle stuff- but in the small clear mountain streams i fish- any disturbance has the potential to put the fish down- you tread soft...<br />

<br />

Clarkii.</p></blockquote>

 

The San Juan shuffle dosent nessicarly meen disturbing the fish. Assuming you get far enough upstream and above the fish and don't knock around rocks and grind gravel the fish won't be disturbed. Instead a wave of silt; and the goodies that come with it (various larvae, smaller nymphs, worms) will hit the fish. The abundance of food will put the fish in a feeding mood and make it easier to approach them.

 

I wouldn't call this technique ethical as its basically chuming. I know this yew unique has been used by bait fishers for a long time, but it seems wrong to use it fly fishing.

[flytyinfreak 0]

Lets not forget wind speed/direction, solar positioning, and the environmental factor, There's a reason the single handed spey cast techniques are becoming must have weapons in a fly fisherman's repertoire.

[Crackaig 0]

The spot to stand is where the best presentation is achieved.

^ yep-

 

my question would be- what smart fisherman would fish upstream from a starting point and not fish on the way back?

and- im not sure about this whole san juan shuffle stuff- but in the small clear mountain streams i fish- any disturbance has the potential to put the fish down- you tread soft...

 

Clarkii.

 

Is the way back along the river? Some places I fish it isn't. I may drop into pools on the way back if I can, but as I explained before working downstream but fishing up pools, the usually most efficient way, means walking up to 3 times as far. Often it is quicker to walk back and fish up again.

 

One length of the river Tame in Saddleworth springs to mind. It takes about two hours to fish up it thoroughly. Then about 10 to 15 minutes to walk back. The path back is only 20 to 30 feet from the river but up to 40 feet above it. Its a very loose bank, you wouldn't want to try to navigate from the path to the river. This is just one example, but the situation isn't uncommon.

 

Cheers,

C.

[clarkii 0]

The spot to stand is where the best presentation is achieved.

^ yep-

 

my question would be- what smart fisherman would fish upstream from a starting point and not fish on the way back?

and- im not sure about this whole san juan shuffle stuff- but in the small clear mountain streams i fish- any disturbance has the potential to put the fish down- you tread soft...

 

Clarkii.

 

Is the way back along the river? Some places I fish it isn't. I may drop into pools on the way back if I can, but as I explained before working downstream but fishing up pools, the usually most efficient way, means walking up to 3 times as far. Often it is quicker to walk back and fish up again.

 

One length of the river Tame in Saddleworth springs to mind. It takes about two hours to fish up it thoroughly. Then about 10 to 15 minutes to walk back. The path back is only 20 to 30 feet from the river but up to 40 feet above it. Its a very loose bank, you wouldn't want to try to navigate from the path to the river. This is just one example, but the situation isn't uncommon.

 

Cheers,

C.

makes sense- we all fish different water/streams that demand their own approach- so it appears highly variable/situational... i fish some pretty steep gradiant streams- it can be physically taxing and im not getting any younger, but unless i am running out of light i will usually fish my way back.

 

Clarkii.

[bkatz1 0]

attack them from the rear! I always head upstream. bigger waters I fish upstream while casting across as well...

[vicrider 0]

I've always been an upstream guy on the streams of northern WI and MN I fished so hard years ago. I'd park at one of the acess points that didn't have any other cars and start working up. Usually a few hours or so to next access spot, then walk road back or catch a ride with someone. Like riffivsthsly, those streams were up or down streams, seldom wide enough to do across and down. The bigger ones usually got a lot more pressure but the small ones produced great brookies, with enough nice browns and bows mixed in to provide excitement. Fishing them back down was never as productive as up but brookies don't seem to have the memories of browns and you'd still get quite a few of those.

[nick2011 0]

im gonna say im just an ametuer because i just find a spot that catches my eye and fish it, but i do usually cast up stream let it float downstream then retrieve..im pretty new to streams and rivers i usually fish lakes.