casting sinking lines

[Fish For Life 0]

Ive heard a few times know from different sources that casting a sinking line is not vary fun. Ive heard that it is much harder to cast with a sinking line than a floating. And that you cant get as much distance out of it. Why is this? Is what i have heard true or is it just some gibberish. Im about to get a 10wt full sinking line for pike and lake trout fishing and want to clear this topic up first.

 

Thanks

[Piker20 0]

3 points you've raised.

1) Not fun. Well if you need a deep fly to catch a fish then they end up being more fun than a floater with no fish! But the reason people, me included dont like them is because the whole line is sinking. On running water you really struggle to add mends to a full sink line. It is much more likely to find obstructions beneath the water and snag you up. If fishing a short single handed rod you need to pull in lengths of line before you can make a roll cast to bring the head to the surface, then you can make an overhead cast as normal. But the weight of the water on the line will load the rod more deeply and can feel odd at first compared to casting with your floating line. If you dont use a stripping basket all the line you retrieved is now sinking at your feet and when you try to shoot it wont go far.

2) getting distance As above, if the running line is not managed well it will be sinking and drifting away in running water and ruin any casts. A stripping basket will cure this and I find that sinking lines, being thinner than floaters actually can cast better than the floater.

3) A full sink Why the full sink? If you are fishing from a boat in deep water 15ft + then yes a full sinker will probably be a good bet. But I have found pike will suspend along the thermocline in a big water and even in cold weather can be quite a way off bottom if the waters very deep. I dont know if they have started making them for single hand rods but if you can find any sinkers that are double or triple density, normally nominated by floater/sink 1/ sink 2 or sink1/sink3/sink5

these are much easier to cast as the portion closest to the rod is sinking slower than the fly end, makes lifting the rig up and ready to cast much easier.

[utyer 0]

Sinking lines are built for a specific function, which is getting the fly or lure to the level of the fish. Casting them wasn't the main objective. The can be cast fine up to a point. The heaver (this is the thicker part, and is hardly noticeable in a sinking line,) casting portion of a weight forward line is at most 60 feet. The thinner running line won't load a rod properly, and I don't like to let it out past the rod tip.

 

I only fish full sinking lines in still water. I have at least 8 full sinking lines, in different sink rates. We use different sink rates to control just how deep our flies get. I don't think they are harder to cast, the problem is in getting the line up out of the water. That coupled with the large wet flies. Working a short 35 to 45 foot cast is all I ever do. First I will retrieve the line until I see my leader connection which is bright orange. Then I have no line to pick up from any great depth. The fly will usually be close enough to clear the surface with one back cast.

 

I work a few false casts to get the line moving and shoot as much as I can. On a good day with little wind, or wind at my back, I can get a 70' cast out. Most of the time its more like 60', since we drift with the wind, we are casting into it. No matter how far the cast is, I then shake the rod tip to play out the rest of the line as I paddle away from the fly. Fishing from a kick boat this is quite easy. With my full line out, I drift a bit before I start a retrieve.

 

I retrieve just fast enough to keep the fly out of the weeds. If the weeds are high or we fish shallow, I use a slower sink rate. The fewer casts I have to make the better I like it.

 

In theory, a sinking line should be easier to cast not harder than a floating. The weight of a line is built along the first 37 to 40' of the line. An 8 weight floating, or sinking line will have the same grain weight. The coating of a floating line will be full of air bubbles which will make it thicker that the sinking line. This thicker line will create more wind resistance during the cast. A sinking line will create less wind resistance.

[eric_sthjrsy 0]

Not an expert at all on sinking/ floating lines or in fly fishing period. However I posted a topic last week about what weight (sink rate) fly line (Sinking) to get for my new

streamer setup I am putting together. One of the guys responded by saying some of the same things these guys are talking about (difficulty in getting line out of water) and not

to use a full sink line in moving water. They told me to look up Jim Teeny Fly lines which are basically floating lines with 24' sink tips on them. Reasonably priced and seems

like it should do the job on the rivers I want to fish. Still contemplating which one to get. Just thought I would pass this on in case you are in a similar situation as me

[Chefben4 0]

I fish a 350 grain sinking line 6months out of the year in MI with a 10 wt. My preferred line is Coastal Express..mostly because of the temperature range. In any case, I am casting massive musky flies. Mostly 12" and over and an action similar to a throwing a wet sock. I can still get distance and it is a bit "harder" but its all relative. You will need to adjust your casting stroke to accommodate the sinking line, surface tension, and of course the fly.

 

As Utyer mentioned if you get a few false casts going and the line moving you shouldnt have a problem with distance.

 

Rod plays a huge role as well. I had mine custom made at Midwest Custom fly rods specifically around throwing sinking line. It made a huge difference in effort.

[Kudu 0]

I fish sinking line a lot. I find it easier but it does create flaws in casting as I open my cast a lot more.

[Fish For Life 0]

3) A full sink Why the full sink? If you are fishing from a boat in deep water 15ft + then yes a full sinker will probably be a good bet. But I have found pike will suspend along the thermocline in a big water and even in cold weather can be quite a way off bottom if the waters very deep

Im wanting to get a full sinking line mainly because of the lake trout. Most of the time when im fishing for pike ill just use my floating line with a longer leader. I will want to use the full sink line for them when im targeting pike 20t feet deep.

 

I don't plan on doing any river fishing with this sinking line. Ill be out in the middle of the lake with our boat.

[Fish For Life 0]

http://www.jsflyfishing.com/item/LL-220740-0000/Scientific-Anglers-Mastery-Streamer-Express-Fly-Line/1.html

 

This is a possible line that i am looking at but want to get something cleared up first. Is this a full sink or only a tip sink. Just the way it is described i cant figure it out ( and i don't want to get it wrong, dad would not be happy ) Id probably be best off with the orange line (9/10wt). Its 350 grain, how fast will this sink? Can someone pls explain the whole line grain thing to me.
Thanks

[utyer 0]

Your choice of a 350 grain weight line for a 9/10 weight rod is only one part of the sinking line equation. That grain weight is what the first 30 feet of line weighs. There are published standards that show the grain weights of the line section (30 feet,) for all the numbered fly lines.

 

The next thing you have to figure out is the density of the line. The more dense the line is (for its weight,) the faster it will sink. Fly line makers use a sink rate system based on Roman numerals. The type I line is the slowest, and a type VI is the fastest. I can take a rubber tire tube, that is deflated, and it will sink. Then inflate it, and it will float, same weight in the rubber tube, just less density.

 

Line manufacturers system of measuring the sink rates of their different lines is not a real world measure of how fast any given line will sink. Scientific Anglers just cut small one to two inch sections and measure how fast they sink. A full line of the same model will sink much slower. This Fly Fishing Research web site will give you a better explanation, and even includes a calculator that you can use to determine the sink rate of your line. You will have to do the math yourself.

 

The sink rate of the line you mentioned, is type VI which is good for what you are wanting to do. That line is also a FULL sinking line. The head section is just more dense than the running line, so it stays down, but it all sinks.

 

Hope that helps.

[whatfly 0]

The SA Streamer Express is not a full sink line per se, it is essentially a shooting head line (24-30' head) with an intermediate (slow sink) running line (full sink typically has the same sink rate for entire line). This makes it a bit easier to cast in moving water because your running line does not sink faster than you can aerialize it for your forward cast and the heavy head makes it easier to shoot line. It comes in different sink rates according to the SA site, so whomever you buy this from, make sure you get the ips sink rate you want (found conflicting information that specified everything from 5.5 to 8 ips, would not hurt to make sure before you buy). For 20' water, I'd go with as fast as I could get, but any sink rate will eventually get to the right depth...you just have to wait longer.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

For a number of years now I've used an alternative to full sinking lines... All of my heavier rods are set up with a full intermediate line that can be fished near the surface or counted down to the depth needed. By heavier rods I'm talking about 10wt and up. No, you can't quickly pick up the line after a cast to re-cast it... You need to strip it in, then do a small roll cast to clear the line, then your normal casting process. An intermediate line actually casts better than any floating line and certainly better than a full sinking line once you learn to use one. I have my anglers literally fishing the bottom in ten feet of water some days using an intermediate along with a large tarpon fly (a big Tarpon Snake on a heavy leader) by simply counting the gear down then working it slowly across and down current to where big tarpon are lying like salmon as they hold in small rivers.. The only thing not possible with an intermediate is working poppers or similar surface bugs. In each case the following pics show fish taken on intermediate lines...

 

 

Tight lines

Bob LeMay

(954) 435-5666

[singletrack 0]

I use a very heavy shooting head when I fish the surf here in California. It is 270 grains for 20ft of line. I like casting them now but at first it was trying. It does go farther then any floating line will. I shoot line at about 90 to 100ft pretty regularly with it. I would highly recommend you get your double haul down. This will help a lot for distance and loading the rod well. I get the full length of the weight section out the rod tip and then 3-4ft of running line out. If you get to much running line out you will not be able to cast the head. You will have to pull most of the line in in order to recast but if you are stripping any ways to add life to your fly this should be something you are already doing. Practice with it a bit I am sure you will be able to get it to shoot. Also get a stripping basket it does help a lot. It will also require practice to get to all work together but you will be able to shoot line better when you have got it down.