Bad gudes and why bother fly fishing?

[troutguy 0]

Went fishing on Wilson Creek in North Carolina. Very busy weekend with many people on the river. The fish saw every fly in the Orvis and Umpqua catalog. Caught four fish, two Browns and two Brook Trout.

 

Saw two different guides wiping their pigeons flies with Power Bait. I confronted one and he said it was not baiting that everyone does it. He said that he is just putting a smell on the fly. He said further that his pigeons he is guiding were not going to catch fish in such a heavy fishing pressured environment. I saw this once before, same river, the guide even left his Power Bait container behind. I reported them.

 

I was told Squirmy Worms can be injected with oil and stuff to make them smell by the game warden. He also said most people who fish egg patterns do it too. He said he smells many flies and has searched fly fishermen for baits and oils, especially if the have a lot of egg patterns.

 

In North Carolina you can fly fish most streams year round. Baiting and keeping fish is strictly prohibited. Rivers are very busy because of the state stocking monstrous breeder trout along with regular fish, so competition to catch fish is great.

 

Why bother fly fishing if you feel the need to bait? Do egg patterns and the hollow tubing of squirmy worms invite baiting?

[troutguy 0]

Brown trout on a nymph.

 

 

[SilverCreek 0]

Hit the guides in the pocketbook!

 

Do guides have to be licensed in your state? If so, I would petition the state to remove the guides license for certain violations and using scents would be one of the violations. Not only that, but also fine the client and the fly shop that the guide works out of. That will stop this type of behavior.

 

I would also make possession of scents and baits illegal when fishing in fly fishing only waters.

[phg 0]

I guess you are just sounding off and venting a bit of frustration.

 

What they are doing is clearly illegal, but with so few game wardens, the chances of getting caught, especially if they are releasing their catch, are practically nil.

 

For those who may not be familiar, Troutguy is referring to the Delayed Harvest, or DH, program here in NC. Select streams are stocked throughout the colder months with nice trout. Fishing, from Oct. to June, is single hook, artificial lure, catch and release only. It's a great program, but does get abused. The streams used are, generally, closer to population centers, and make "quality" trout fishing available to many people who might be otherwise be unwilling or unable to participate.

 

I don't like it when "professionals" (yes a guide license is required) abuse the system, but it is what it is. You should definitely report abuses you observe, but don't hold your breath.

[SilverCreek 0]

It would help if guides had to display thier guide licenses on their back just like hunters do. Then it would be easy to copy the license number and report it.

 

The public can be the eyes and ears of the wardens if they made it easy to do.

[troutguy 0]

I did report it. In NC you don't have to show your license to a private person. I was surprised when the game warden told me how wide spread it was with guides and also with just regular people fly fishing within our own fly fishing group.

 

PHG I was venting more about what is considered fly fishing these days.

 

Would anyone say something if they saw a fishing buddy using bait spray or rubbing on a Power Bait or scent?

[planettrout 0]

Do that here in CA and it will be a BIG fine:

 

 

"The California Code of Regulations Title 14, section 1.11 states that an artificial lure “… does not include any scented or artificial baits.” This means that attractants may not be applied to the lure while fishing in waters restricted for artificial lure use.

In addition, some people spray WD-40 on their lures. This substance contains petroleum and is specifically prohibited by law to be deposited or introduced into the waters of the state (Fish and Game Code, section 5650)."

 

 

PT/TB

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Why bother fly fishing if you feel the need to bait?

The guide gave the real answer to this question when he told you it was the only way his clients were going to be able to catch fish in that stream on that day. That guide didn't care about what was or wasn't fly fishing, he cared about catching fish for his clients so he'd get a nice tip and/or repeat business. It doesn't matter what the sport is, this kind of behavior is what you'll always get from certain people when money enters the picture.

 

For those who resort to illegal tactics for reasons other than earning a living, their reasons could be just about anything, but, based on experiences I've had, usually seem revolve around some combination of laziness, incompetence (at catching fish using legal methods) and an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

[Rocco 0]

If a guide will cheat to satisfy paying customers at all, he will do so despite any "particular day" exigencies.

 

But then, the 'sport' is already bastardized by the 'follow the hatchery truck' sportsmen and the politicians who use tax money to

indulge the lazy and inept in the illusions that sustain them.

 

It is sadder still though to see fly fishers cheating on a regular basis.

 

Rocco

[JSzymczyk 0]

I did report it. In NC you don't have to show your license to a private person. I was surprised when the game warden told me how wide spread it was with guides and also with just regular people fly fishing within our own fly fishing group.

 

PHG I was venting more about what is considered fly fishing these days.

 

Would anyone say something if they saw a fishing buddy using bait spray or rubbing on a Power Bait or scent?

 

People really piss me off... you are not alone.

 

Yes, I think it sucks. I get irritated as hell with stupid people who choose to ignore the laws and there does not seem to be any consequence for them... I ran into a jackass the other day when I was out looking at a stream in a popular spot for early bass... and he told me I "should go to such-and-such stream because they just stocked it and he and his buddy must have caught 40 trout there this morning... had to throw them all back though" NO, A$$WIPE, you can't fish in approved trout waters at all from March 1st until 0800 of opening day....

 

If the activity is prohibited by regulations, then it is wrong and should be reported. I'm not familiar with your waters, but do these trout have any chance of survival, at all? By that, I mean through the summer. Most of these situations always revolve around trout, and I don't hold trout in any higher esteem than any other game fish. I live in an area with a lot of stocked, put and take trout streams. I do really like catching them, but in reality they are just hatchery raised animals like chickens. The state always stocks some big golden rainbows in our local streams the week or so before the season opens, and invariably people catch them and run straight to the taxidermist. Why? I don't get it.

 

"venting more about what is considered fly fishing these days"... unless it is specifically spelled out in your regulations, what is fly fishing anyways? Do we all have to exclusively fish dry flies upstream for it to be acceptable? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there. The use of scent is hugely embraced by all other types of fishermen other than fly fishermen. Yes I get a lot of satisfaction when I catch fish on my flies, but I also enjoy catching fish on spinning gear with Gulp Alive Minnows, when it is effective to do so...

 

As for regulations and laws, I see a whole s**tload of behaviors every single day, which are outside of laws but everyone just seems to accept them.... ever drive over the speed limit? Ever run across people who use certain substances which are now "legal" in some places but not others, and they think it should be and lots of people do it but it is still illegal? The behavior you describe in fishing is only a tiny part of how idiot people act in every segment of their lives.

[Knuckledragger 0]

Less pressured waters is what you need.

[Rolf Jacobsen 0]

It’s a pretty sad commentary when we have to ask what is fly fishing…………..

[troutguy 0]

JSZYM

 

I don't normally fish dries upstream either, I'm a downstream wet fly (yes real wet flies) and streamer fisher. LOL

 

All baiting, scents included, are illegal during this time in NC. You can spinfish, but you must remove all but one hook from a lure.

 

In this stream the trout don't have a chance. They could live year round in Wilson Creek but poaching hits them very hard even before they can be legally caught.

 

Wilson Creek has a great deal of crime and poverty in the stream drainage. It is a US National Forest. One of the rangers and his canine partner were just shot and killed last week by a man who killed his parents and went on a crime spree. There are very few state and federal conservation officers to patrol hundreds of square miles of area. There area is noted for methamphetamine, moonshine and marijuana. That area of NC had 93 meth labs found in 2103 (Wilkes, Caldwell, Burke and Watauga Counties) and fairly high unemployment. Compare that to your home. The game wardens are really stretched with many other priorities.

 

NC does a pretty good job of making these "chickens" a little more wild by the time they are open to taking.

 

There are a good number of idiot behaviors for sure. I am not sure exactly how I feel on the substances many people use. I would almost rather legalize everything. PM me and I will explain and tell you what I do for a living.

 

You are right on the entitlement.

 

Under advice of counsel I refuse to answer your speeding question......................

[SilverCreek 0]

Would anyone say something if they saw a fishing buddy using bait spray or rubbing on a Power Bait or scent?

 

 

I would assume they are ignorant of the regulations, and would say something.

[JSzymczyk 0]

Troutguy, that sounds like a wonderful stream to stay the hell away from.

 

There are people who would pay a guide to take them there??

 

Hell, I can go to a crime-riddled sh**hole for free.