Fugly Hair Packed Sizes?

[TheCream 0]

 

 

 

'm saying this one final time, and I'm done: stop speculating and get the thing in your hands. It's remarkable to me that you know everything about the thing and what it can and can't do without ever touching one or using one.

Well, had you bothered to read, you'd have seen that have checked them out, as a friend of mine has one.

 

Since you've shown that you're not interested in normal, intelligent discourse, it's probably for the best that you're done.

 

 

Checked it out or USED it? Specify.

 

I have checked out Ferrari's, can't say I have ever owned one.

[josephcsylvia 0]

 

Cold, you mean to say you can drive tight running screws easier with two, maybe three fingers compared to your whole hand or maybe two hands? I think you might be fibbing to us.

Are you sure you weren't dreaming about that home improvement project instead of actually doing it? BTW, I probably have and do drive more fasteners of all types in a year's time than you will in a lifetime. I just don't tell tall tales about it.

(it's okay as-is, bu could always be better),

 

 

here is where you said it cold, I read your posts for you, Now your telling guys who are extremely proficient with deer hair (TheCream) that him saying the tool made him better is ludicrous... Who does that make close minded?

[josephcsylvia 0]

 

 

 

 

'm saying this one final time, and I'm done: stop speculating and get the thing in your hands. It's remarkable to me that you know everything about the thing and what it can and can't do without ever touching one or using one.

Well, had you bothered to read, you'd have seen that have checked them out, as a friend of mine has one.

 

Since you've shown that you're not interested in normal, intelligent discourse, it's probably for the best that you're done.

 

 

Checked it out or USED it? Specify.

 

I have checked out Ferrari's, can't say I have ever owned one.

since you have "checked out" Ferrari's, im sure you are now qualified to tell me why it isn't any better that my mountaineer? Lmao

[Cold 0]

Oh my god, I'm asking what makes it better. As excellent tyers whose packed hair creations using the thing are so immaculate that they can't possibly be improved, you'd think you'd be able to explain it.

 

 

 

here is where you said it cold

Is English your first language?

 

Because that may account for the disconnect here, and that's no fault of anyone's.

 

If this is the case, there's a difference between "needs work" (which has the connotation of being subpar or lacking) and "okay as-is, but could always be better", which is exactly what it says.

 

There's also the matter of quoting me with things I never actually said and rather substituting in whatever you'd have like me to say, but that's par for the course for a guy that figures it's okay to tell other people where they can and can't post.

 

So that being said...Cream, since you're apparently an excellent tyer of stacked hair flies (and I say that without a shred of sarcasm...I've never seen anything you've tied, but if Joe said it, it must be true (okay...that was a little sarcasm)...so without any reason to disbelieve, I'm proceeding under the impression that you're handy with a bit of dead deer), can you explain, in objective, simple, non-analogy terms since that doesn't work, why the one is better than the other? Or, failing that, can you explain why you prefer the one over the other? I'm not saying it *isn't* better...just that I've never seen anyone give any sort of an objective reason. If it's as simple as "it's not any better, I just prefer it", okay, that's fine. It's unconvincing, but it's fine. If there's more to it than pure subjective preference, that's what I'm interested in finding out.

 

I would think that someone with the skill and experience that you have (that I've heard you have), you would be uniquely qualified to explain the advantages in detail, which is what I've been looking for the whole time.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Oh my god, I'm asking what makes it better. As excellent tyers whose packed hair creations using the thing are so immaculate that they can't possibly be improved, you'd think you'd be able to explain it.

 

 

 

here is where you said it cold

Is English your first language?

 

Because that may account for the disconnect here, and that's no fault of anyone's.

 

If this is the case, there's a difference between "needs work" (which has the connotation of being subpar or lacking) and "okay as-is, but could always be better", which is exactly what it says.

 

There's also the matter of quoting me with things I never actually said and rather substituting in whatever you'd have like me to say, but that's par for the course for a guy that figures it's okay to tell other people where they can and can't post.

 

So that being said...Cream, since you're apparently an excellent tyer of stacked hair flies (and I say that without a shred of sarcasm...I've never seen anything you've tied, but if Joe said it, it must be true (okay...that was a little sarcasm)...so without any reason to disbelieve, I'm proceeding under the impression that you're handy with a bit of dead deer), can you explain, in objective, simple, non-analogy terms since that doesn't work, why the one is better than the other? Or, failing that, can you explain why you prefer the one over the other? I'm not saying it *isn't* better...just that I've never seen anyone give any sort of an objective reason. If it's as simple as "it's not any better, I just prefer it", okay, that's fine. It's unconvincing, but it's fine. If there's more to it than pure subjective preference, that's what I'm interested in finding out.

 

I would think that someone with the skill and experience that you have (that I've heard you have), you would be uniquely qualified to explain the advantages in detail, which is what I've been looking for the whole time.

Never Said? Hum you must have been sleeping when you wrote post #46 lol Anyway this has become quite a waste of time debating a tool with someone who has no experience with it.

[TheCream 0]

Oh my god, I'm asking what makes it better. As excellent tyers whose packed hair creations using the thing are so immaculate that they can't possibly be improved, you'd think you'd be able to explain it.

 

 

 

here is where you said it cold

Is English your first language?

 

Because that may account for the disconnect here, and that's no fault of anyone's.

 

If this is the case, there's a difference between "needs work" (which has the connotation of being subpar or lacking) and "okay as-is, but could always be better", which is exactly what it says.

 

There's also the matter of quoting me with things I never actually said and rather substituting in whatever you'd have like me to say, but that's par for the course for a guy that figures it's okay to tell other people where they can and can't post.

 

So that being said...Cream, since you're apparently an excellent tyer of stacked hair flies (and I say that without a shred of sarcasm...I've never seen anything you've tied, but if Joe said it, it must be true (okay...that was a little sarcasm)...so without any reason to disbelieve, I'm proceeding under the impression that you're handy with a bit of dead deer), can you explain, in objective, simple, non-analogy terms since that doesn't work, why the one is better than the other? Or, failing that, can you explain why you prefer the one over the other? I'm not saying it *isn't* better...just that I've never seen anyone give any sort of an objective reason. If it's as simple as "it's not any better, I just prefer it", okay, that's fine. It's unconvincing, but it's fine. If there's more to it than pure subjective preference, that's what I'm interested in finding out.

 

I would think that someone with the skill and experience that you have (that I've heard you have), you would be uniquely qualified to explain the advantages in detail, which is what I've been looking for the whole time.

 

As I so eloquently said above, I am not a master of physics. I will explain it as best I can, which I am sure will not be good enough for you, but here goes:

 

-safety: my hands constantly slipped on the Brassie packer when I tried to pack the hair densely. How can it not? It's a completely smooth metal design with no "stop" to keep your fingers/hand from slipping

-ruggedness: as mentioned above, the Brassie is flimsy. It can be easily bent with the force that I put on packed hair

-size: the Brassie is built for a child's hands, not a man's hands. I felt like I had to grip the largest Brassie I could find between my thumb and index finger, not my whole hand. With the Fugly, I can get a solid whole-hand grip on the tool

 

Those simple things allow me to put more force through the tool to tightly pack hair. Why? In my humble opinion, it's because you don't have to hold back, be careful, or worry that you're going to slip and impale your hand on a hook point. It allows you to put maximum force through the tool into the hair and thread wraps to tightly pack the hair.

 

And I am still waiting on a response to my question, did you touch it or did you actually use it?

 

I have used the Fugly down to a size 10 streamer hook with no issues. Here's a Christmas bug that went into ornament bulbs on a size 6:

 

 

I've used it on big bugs, this is approximately 3.5" long on an articulated shank:

 

 

And on more traditionally sized bass poppers:

 

[mikechell 0]

I am at work, Cream ... so I don't get the pictures.

Oh, never mind ... I've got most of them saved in my "other people's flies" file.

[johnnyquahog 0]

It is getting sort of cloudy in here. I took a couple snaps to compare and since I indroduced another tool into the fray I will explain what I use that for.

 

 

First photo (I hope) depicts the beveled or wedge jaws on the fugly. They don't end in a sharp point.

 

2nd photo shows the pusher tool I brought up in my last response. The different holes fit different size hook eyes.

 

3rd photo shows (I hope) a bug where the hair around the eye was pushed back using the black tool and before final trimming. Once trimming has taken place either the fugly or the brassie can assist. This bug is wider than an inch and the mass of the fugly just provides a better grip/holding power to get as much hair as I can on a #2/0 C52S BLN hook.

 

bonus last photo of the stackers I grabbed. If you don't like the cost of the fugly then you definately won't like the cost of the peak magnum stacker.

 

 

 

[flytire 0]

what the fugly?

 

whatever happened to the good old says when we were compacting hair with a good old bic pen?

 

 

 

i also applaud all of you that tie some of the best deer hair flies on the web regardless of which device you use!

[Cold 0]

Thanks, Cream and johnny.

 

Cream, to answer your question (as I have, several times, but once more can't hurt): My friend owns one. I've checked it out at his place, handled it, and clamped it around a hook, though I have not tied a fly with it. Hence asking the questions I've been asking the whole time. I wasn't telling anyone they were wrong, just asking for a reason as to why it was any better than what existed before, and comparing the feedback to what I did know about the thing. That seems to offend a lot of people.

 

I guess from what's been said, the reason that I never saw any benefit to the fugly is because, for the way I pack hair, there really wouldn't be much benefit. I don't put nearly the kind of pressure on the hair where I'd be remotely concerned about my hands slipping from the tool (for those concerned about hitting the hook point, would it help to simply pivot the tool 90 degrees about the shank, so that the jaws (and by extension, your fingers) were to the right and left, as opposed to above and below...with the below being in-line with the point?)...and I certainly don't use the kind of force where I'd be anywhere close to bending the brassie.

 

I suppose that the simple answer here, then, is that it's a matter of your technique. Since I've never tied in a way that required herculean pressure, I never had a situation where the mechanical differences of the fugly would have been to any advantage (and in fact, would undo the brassie's advantages of being small, short, and able to be pinched between my thumb and forefinger...which is exactly the grip that seems to be much-maligned among the fugly devotees.

[RexW 0]

Johnny, thanks for the comments, but I've got a couple of questions for you. If you don't mind. (Hey, this thread has already gone off in several directions, so what's one more? After all, my original question has already been answered.)

 

Do you tie in bundles of hair that are thick enough to need the magnum sized hair stacker? It sounds like some of you may be using much larger bundles of hair than I've ever attempted.

 

The head (or nose) of the mouse fly looks like it is inset into the hair. How are you doing that? I don't think I've ever seen the head tied that deep into the hair before. With that much hair on the fly, how are you able hold it back enough to tie off the head? I can see how your black tool would push the hair back to make room for the head, but how do you keep the hair from springing back over the eye before the head is tied off?

 

Thanks.

[johnnyquahog 0]

Rex - let me try to answer.. With long hair, (over 1.5") especially belly, I'm comfortable with two pencil thicknesses of hair. With 200 denier gsp you need to insure a solid base. With 130 you need to be careful not to slice through the hair. Something in the middle works better for me. Helm did 3 pencil thicknesses but I'm far from there yet. There are plenty of patterns where1 thickness will work. Remember the top should = the bottom so 2 on the bottom of white may = 1 + 1/2 + 1/2 colors stacked on the top.

 

For the head/nose; On the example below imagine the ears are tied in and the face is trimmed, the whiskers are tied in and the nose, using shorter hair is stacked bottom and top but not yet trimmed out. The first picture shows using an old hollow pen/bodkin to apply seveal single and double half hitches with the gsp. This needs to be done all during the assembly of the fly as well as a drop of adhesive at the same points. After several half hitches I cut the gsp behind the eye. At this point I take a small square of plastic shipping bag and either cut or poke a very small hole in it. I pull it over the eye of the hook and wind in black or sometimes red thread. I build up a thread dam and head and do another half hitch with the pen. At this point I use the matarelli whip finisher tool to complete the head. I apply head finish and tug the plastic in all directions so it doesn't tear leaving a tiny renmant. Some guys don't poke a hole in the plastic but cut a slice to the middle. That way they can whip finish the gsp thread as well.

 

[RexW 0]

Thanks Johnny, very useful information.

[mikechell 0]

Rex, watch this video of TheCream's.

 

Excellent step by step, including tying off.

[126lineman 0]

Great video, very well done. Thanks for sharing that Jeff and thanks for posting it Mike. I learned a lot from it.