Pegging Beads... Fishing or snagging?

[Cold 0]

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[vjc 0]

I can see why states would make it illegal, and maybe others should too because it might be difficult to legally differentiate between intentional snagging and proper use of beads. If a method is illegal I would never do it myself or advocate it be done, but whether a method is fair and sporting is another question. I think we all agree that dragging a hook through the water in hope of snagging a fish is not sporting and should be illegal. The sport is fooling the fish into thinking your bait is food and eating it. Intent has to be considered, anything with a hook can be fished in a way that can snag a fish and when 30 or 40 steelhead are holding in a small hole it wouldn't be too difficult. I don't see how trying to fool a fish into eating a bead is any less sporting to trying to get one to eat any fly pattern. Does anyone think its easier? I don't. I've caught far more steelhead on nymphs, wooly buggers and streamers than I have on beads.

 

And what about fish hooked from the outside with other tackle where the hook is separate from the part that looks like food? How many times has a spinners hook punctured the fish's mouth from the outside because the angle it struck at? How about stinger style streamers? Their design is similar to the pegged egg, an attractor element connected to a hook by a length of line.

 

Ultimately, regardless of what we put on the end of our line, each one of us is responsible to fish in a fair, sporting and legal manner.

[Cold 0]

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[fishinguy 0]

 

 

I bought some beads a few years ago to see what the hype was about. Hadn't really read anything on how to actually rig them before then. I live in pa. The way they were originally intended to be fished, would be illegal, as the fish would be hooked outside the mouth. I've been pegging the bead about an inch up from the hook. EVERY SINGLE FISH I HAVE CAUGHT HAS BEEN HOOKED INSIDE THE MOUTH. Sorry for the caps, just wanted to make that very clear. If i found that they consistently hooked fish outside the mouth, I'd be out a few bucks. Oh well. The way I look at it. If the hook is very close to the bead, it's really no different than any other egg pattern.

Sorry, but if you're doing this in PA, you're fishing illegally.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/hunting-fishing/2009/12/20/Buyer-beware-of-illegal-outdoors-gear/stories/200912200155

 

Relevant portion of the article:

 

Trout beads, for instance, are a hot item in the Pacific Northwest, but could land you in hot water on commonwealth streams.

"It's a legal device elsewhere, but illegal here," said Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission assistant northwest regional law enforcement supervisor Tom Tarkowski. "Trout beads hook fish on the outside of the mouth and, in Pennsylvania, any fish not hooked on the inside of the mouth has to be released."

The device works by attracting a fish to a salmon egg imitation on a line several inches above a hook. When the fish eats the bead and the angler jerks the line, the hook snares the fish on the outside of his jaw.

"Apparently, these devices are popular in other states, like Alaska, and we get a lot of questions from anglers wanting to use them on steelhead here," Tarkowski said. "The answer is, you can't."

I read that as one man's opinion. Did you see what I said in my post? "I've been pegging the bead about an inch up from the hook. EVERY SINGLE FISH I HAVE CAUGHT HAS BEEN HOOKED INSIDE THE MOUTH. " If I caught fish outside the mouth, I'd use them for articulation beads, or pitch them in the trash. Edit: show me where they're said to be illegal in the summary book or the pfbc Website, and I'll buy your argument. Fishing in pa, you know as well as I do, the one thing that's consistent when dealing with WCOs is their inconsistency.

[fishinguy 0]

I'll just leave this here. http://www.hatchmag.com/articles/5-reasons-beads-are-better-egg-fly-patterns/771963

[Cold 0]

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[carpflyguy 0]

Caught inside the mouth or not, I don't think it matters too much to be honest. For me, it comes down to 2 things.

 

1. Is a plastic head a fly? I use any kind of trash fly. Rubber San Juan worms, eggs, etc. But I can't consider a plain old plastic bead an egg. If it were a yarn fly tied in a tune, pegged on the line, I might feel differently on this whole matter.

 

2. If you have to drive the hook into the fish, are you really fooling it? Again, in my opinion, this is a no. Obviously everyone sees this differently, but for me, the hook is part of the fly. The reason beads are so effective is because they're so realistic. If they had hooks attached, they wouldn't be nearly as effective. So it just seems to me like you're not really fooling these fish... instead of getting them to eat a fly (or "fly"), you're giving them a false presentation, and driving the hook into them.

[mikechell 0]

And what about fish hooked from the outside with other tackle where the hook is separate from the part that looks like food? How many times has a spinners hook punctured the fish's mouth from the outside because the angle it struck at? How about stinger style streamers?

According to IGFA rules for record fish, under "The following acts will disqualify a catch:"

 

... "10. Intentionally foul hooking a fish."

 

So, if a fish is hooked outside the mouth but the hook is obviously part of the lure, it may still be considered for record status.

If the lure and the hook are separate, then the intent is to hook the fish outside the mouth ... it is disqualified for consideration.

[fishinguy 0]

 

Dude, if you want to fish illegally and unethically, that's your prerogative.

 

Based on your willingness to employ such methods, I won't actually attempt to use something like logic with you.

 

I hope you get caught, fined, and license revoked.

harsh. None of your so called "logic" is required. Just something from the pfbc site or handbook. On the ethics part of it, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. So long as I'm catching fish with hooks inside their mouths, doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[vjc 0]

I'll just leave this here. http://www.hatchmag.com/articles/5-reasons-beads-are-better-egg-fly-patterns/771963

Good article. The part about fish mortality is why some of the guys around here like them.

 

To those who say fishing with beads is snagging; I agree with you if your definition of snagging is hooking outside the mouth.

 

Here in NY that is not the definition. Here is the definition of snagging/snatching fish in NY from the DEC website:

"Snatching means taking fish not attracted by bait or artificial lure with hooks, gangs or similar devices whether or not baited. Snagging, lifting, and single hook snagging are types of snatching. Snatching is indicated by repeated or exaggerated jerking motions of the fishing rod."

 

I have seen it done, they don't bother with beads and size 12 hooks. Some use big spoons, some try to look a little more legal and use a big fly, but whatever they use they just pull it through holding water and they don't care where the fish is hooked.

[BgalyAK 0]

I know this thread is a few years old but I have to comment and I hope some people read it.

 

 

Im from Alaska, been fly fishing for 20+ years

 

Just for record, I hate bead fishing for rainbows. I get so much more satisfaction and excitement catching trout and dollies and salmon on streamers flies and nymphs, sometimes dries, that I tie myself. Streamers ( my favorite ) for example are tied to immitate leeches,Smolt, fry, minnows, sculpins, baitfish, and on and on. It can be challenging trying to figure out the right color combos and material types and patterns sizes etc to create the most productive streamer for a certain river during a certain time of year immating a certain leech or sculpin. Most times we tie them in articulating patterns and some people depending on the pattern and stream regulations will leave both hooks from both shanks on. Everyone agrees that is fly fishing right?? ( maybe not in its purest form lol )

 

Beads are also imitating something that fish like to eat and especially in Alaska , the trout love salmon eggs and during the salmon spawn in Alaska, there are times that if you arent fishing a bead ( Kenai River for example ) you cannot touch a fish. Ive been with friends floating during heavy spawn in the late summer where I fished s streamer all day and then beads- and I caught 1 or 2 fish to their 20-30 fish each. You can fish flies tied on the hook with yarn to imitate eggs, but nothing works better than a bead pegged on the leader above the hook 2 inches. Also the majority of us have to paint them with finger nail polish special colors to try and immitate the actual color and life cycle phase of the eggs in river the fish are feeding on. Different shades of light pink can mean the difference between 30 fish days and 0 fish days. So there is a form of immitating the food for the fish just like your doing when tying streamers and nymphs and dries. Just doesnt happen to use hackle or deer hair or dubbing, because simply a plastic translucent bead is the best way to imitate what a salmon egg looks like. Is plastic not allowed on some nymphs, or streamers, or bass bugs for example? Lots of trafituonidk flies have plastic materials in them. Think about it.

 

Now the biggest arguement Ive noticed here is the issue of bead not connected to hook and being 2 inches or whatever above the hook. Theres 2 reasons for this mainly. When I first got introduced to fishing with a bead, I was told strictly to Make sure it was no more than 2 inches from the small hook because if its longer than that then you have a chance of hooking the fish in the eye, and I was told not to use a glo bug fly pattern imitation tied on a hook that I usually used because the chances of the trout inhaling the egg pattern too deep could potentially harm or kill the fish. The bead technique for how we use it is really for insuring that when the fish eats the bead ( which is not snagging in my opinion if you e convince me the fish to eat your presentation) and automatically slide the hook over towards the outside perimeter of the fishs mouth keeping it outside of the gill area for an easy harmless release. And to be honest in my experience, I very rarely ever, hook a fish when fishing with a bead on the outside of the mouth. 95% of them the hook is inside right on the lip where its supposed to be.

 

Bead fishing is literally nymph fishing if you think of it. The bead can be melted put on a heated up hook and melted on and catch plenty of fish still but the chances of these Alaskan trout swallowing it too deep the way they inhale eggs floating down the river by the thousands all day fattening up for the winter is too high to risk damaging our awesome fish we have.

 

My 2 cents. It aint snaggin

[spiralspey 0]

I totally agree with you. My intro to pegging beads was on the Russian river in AK, fishing for rainbows and dollies feeding on eggs behind spawning sockeyes. I tried egg flies, but caught nothing until I had the right colored bead. I watched fish avoid my flies, but the same fish would move over and eat the bead. I kept my hook about 1-1.5 inches from the bead and every fish I landed was hooked in the lip and was easy to release. I haven't tried beads anywhere else, but I can see why people do, they're effective and easier on the fish.

I grew up near the great lakes and did a lot of salmon and steelhead fishing. I saw a lot of snagging and flossing. I accidentally snagged plenty of salmon and I am sure some of the salmon I hooked in the mouth were probably unintentionally flossed. What I did and saw done in AK was not snagging or flossing, those fish were actively eating eggs. The pegged hook was a way to more safely hook the fish so they could be released, since C&R is required and those fish are hooked multiple times throughout a season.

Say what you will about a bead not being a fly, but the fact is sometimes fish eat eggs, and beads are an effective imitation. The pegging setup is designed to hook the fish more safey because fish will often be hooked deeply with standard egg flies, it's not designed to snag or floss fish.

[Mark Knapp 0]

Well put, Bgaly AK, and spiralspey, Not only is hooking a fish with a pegged egg much less harmful to the fish, it is much easier to release a fish. The fish never even need leave the water. The fish is boat side for only a few seconds.

 

All the guides and some of the private fisherman carry a release hook, a six" long wire hook with a handle on it. The wire is hooked around the line, slid down the line till it reaches the bend in the hook and the hook is pulled out backward. That's not possible when the hook is down inside the mouth somewhere.

[SilverCreek 0]

I know this thread is a few years old but I have to comment and I hope some people read it.

 

 

Im from Alaska, been fly fishing for 20+ years

 

Just for record, I hate bead fishing for rainbows. I get so much more satisfaction and excitement catching trout and dollies and salmon on streamers flies and nymphs, sometimes dries, that I tie myself. Streamers ( my favorite ) for example are tied to immitate leeches,Smolt, fry, minnows, sculpins, baitfish, and on and on. It can be challenging trying to figure out the right color combos and material types and patterns sizes etc to create the most productive streamer for a certain river during a certain time of year immating a certain leech or sculpin. Most times we tie them in articulating patterns and some people depending on the pattern and stream regulations will leave both hooks from both shanks on. Everyone agrees that is fly fishing right?? ( maybe not in its purest form lol )

 

Beads are also imitating something that fish like to eat and especially in Alaska , the trout love salmon eggs and during the salmon spawn in Alaska, there are times that if you arent fishing a bead ( Kenai River for example ) you cannot touch a fish. Ive been with friends floating during heavy spawn in the late summer where I fished s streamer all day and then beads- and I caught 1 or 2 fish to their 20-30 fish each. You can fish flies tied on the hook with yarn to imitate eggs, but nothing works better than a bead pegged on the leader above the hook 2 inches. Also the majority of us have to paint them with finger nail polish special colors to try and immitate the actual color and life cycle phase of the eggs in river the fish are feeding on. Different shades of light pink can mean the difference between 30 fish days and 0 fish days. So there is a form of immitating the food for the fish just like your doing when tying streamers and nymphs and dries. Just doesnt happen to use hackle or deer hair or dubbing, because simply a plastic translucent bead is the best way to imitate what a salmon egg looks like. Is plastic not allowed on some nymphs, or streamers, or bass bugs for example? Lots of trafituonidk flies have plastic materials in them. Think about it.

 

Now the biggest arguement Ive noticed here is the issue of bead not connected to hook and being 2 inches or whatever above the hook. Theres 2 reasons for this mainly. When I first got introduced to fishing with a bead, I was told strictly to Make sure it was no more than 2 inches from the small hook because if its longer than that then you have a chance of hooking the fish in the eye, and I was told not to use a glo bug fly pattern imitation tied on a hook that I usually used because the chances of the trout inhaling the egg pattern too deep could potentially harm or kill the fish. The bead technique for how we use it is really for insuring that when the fish eats the bead ( which is not snagging in my opinion if you e convince me the fish to eat your presentation) and automatically slide the hook over towards the outside perimeter of the fishs mouth keeping it outside of the gill area for an easy harmless release. And to be honest in my experience, I very rarely ever, hook a fish when fishing with a bead on the outside of the mouth. 95% of them the hook is inside right on the lip where its supposed to be.

 

Bead fishing is literally nymph fishing if you think of it. The bead can be melted put on a heated up hook and melted on and catch plenty of fish still but the chances of these Alaskan trout swallowing it too deep the way they inhale eggs floating down the river by the thousands all day fattening up for the winter is too high to risk damaging our awesome fish we have.

 

My 2 cents. It aint snaggin

 

Didn't Alaska change the regulations to make pegging legal and before the regulation change, it was illegal? I seem to recall that was what happened.

 

Also back in 2013, a pegged bead + a bare hook was not considered top be a fly, because in Alaska; the rule was that a bare hook was not a fly. Since the bead is NOT attached to the hook, a pegged bead could not be a fly.

 

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=622

“Beads are not a fly by definition in Alaska fishing regulation; they are considered and defined as attractors. Make sure you check ADF&G regulations prior to using beads, especially in fly fishing only waters.”

Soooo..... there was a rule change proposed that a BARE hook would be a fly. That would make a pegged bead rig a "fly" so it could be used in fly fishing only waters. I don't know if that passed. Maybe you could let use know if a pegged bead and a bare hook is "officially" a fly in Alaska.

[Mark Knapp 0]

 

I know this thread is a few years old but I have to comment and I hope some people read it.

 

 

Im from Alaska, been fly fishing for 20+ years

 

Just for record, I hate bead fishing for rainbows. I get so much more satisfaction and excitement catching trout and dollies and salmon on streamers flies and nymphs, sometimes dries, that I tie myself. Streamers ( my favorite ) for example are tied to immitate leeches,Smolt, fry, minnows, sculpins, baitfish, and on and on. It can be challenging trying to figure out the right color combos and material types and patterns sizes etc to create the most productive streamer for a certain river during a certain time of year immating a certain leech or sculpin. Most times we tie them in articulating patterns and some people depending on the pattern and stream regulations will leave both hooks from both shanks on. Everyone agrees that is fly fishing right?? ( maybe not in its purest form lol )

 

Beads are also imitating something that fish like to eat and especially in Alaska , the trout love salmon eggs and during the salmon spawn in Alaska, there are times that if you arent fishing a bead ( Kenai River for example ) you cannot touch a fish. Ive been with friends floating during heavy spawn in the late summer where I fished s streamer all day and then beads- and I caught 1 or 2 fish to their 20-30 fish each. You can fish flies tied on the hook with yarn to imitate eggs, but nothing works better than a bead pegged on the leader above the hook 2 inches. Also the majority of us have to paint them with finger nail polish special colors to try and immitate the actual color and life cycle phase of the eggs in river the fish are feeding on. Different shades of light pink can mean the difference between 30 fish days and 0 fish days. So there is a form of immitating the food for the fish just like your doing when tying streamers and nymphs and dries. Just doesnt happen to use hackle or deer hair or dubbing, because simply a plastic translucent bead is the best way to imitate what a salmon egg looks like. Is plastic not allowed on some nymphs, or streamers, or bass bugs for example? Lots of trafituonidk flies have plastic materials in them. Think about it.

 

Now the biggest arguement Ive noticed here is the issue of bead not connected to hook and being 2 inches or whatever above the hook. Theres 2 reasons for this mainly. When I first got introduced to fishing with a bead, I was told strictly to Make sure it was no more than 2 inches from the small hook because if its longer than that then you have a chance of hooking the fish in the eye, and I was told not to use a glo bug fly pattern imitation tied on a hook that I usually used because the chances of the trout inhaling the egg pattern too deep could potentially harm or kill the fish. The bead technique for how we use it is really for insuring that when the fish eats the bead ( which is not snagging in my opinion if you e convince me the fish to eat your presentation) and automatically slide the hook over towards the outside perimeter of the fishs mouth keeping it outside of the gill area for an easy harmless release. And to be honest in my experience, I very rarely ever, hook a fish when fishing with a bead on the outside of the mouth. 95% of them the hook is inside right on the lip where its supposed to be.

 

Bead fishing is literally nymph fishing if you think of it. The bead can be melted put on a heated up hook and melted on and catch plenty of fish still but the chances of these Alaskan trout swallowing it too deep the way they inhale eggs floating down the river by the thousands all day fattening up for the winter is too high to risk damaging our awesome fish we have.

 

My 2 cents. It aint snaggin

 

Didn't Alaska change the regulations to make pegging legal and before the regulation change, it was illegal? I seem to recall that was what happened.

 

Also back in 2013, a pegged bead + a bare hook was not considered top be a fly, because in Alaska; the rule was that a bare hook was not a fly. Since the bead is NOT attached to the hook, a pegged bead could not be a fly.

 

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=622

“Beads are not a fly by definition in Alaska fishing regulation; they are considered and defined as attractors. Make sure you check ADF&G regulations prior to using beads, especially in fly fishing only waters.”

Soooo..... there was a rule change proposed that a BARE hook would be a fly. That would make a pegged bead rig a "fly" so it could be used in fly fishing only waters. I don't know if that passed. Maybe you could let use know if a pegged bead and a bare hook is "officially" a fly in Alaska.

 

 

From Alaska fishing regs, page 6 of regulation pamphlet.

 

USE OF ATTRACTOR (BEAD): An attractor, including a bead, when used with an artificial fly, artificial lure, or bare hook, must be: • Either fixed within two inches of the bare hook, fly, or lure, • Or be free sliding on the line or leader . • A bead fished on the line above a bare single hook is legal gear in waters where only flies may be used.

 

From definitions, page 8 in same pamphlet.

 

ARTIFICIAL FLY—a fly which is constructed by common methods known as fly tying, including a dry fly, wet fly, and nymph, or a bare single hook that is free of bait as defined in 5 AAC 75 .995 . Materials and chemicals designed and produced primarily to cause flies to float or sink may be used on artificial flies.

 

So, in Alaska, a bare hook is a fly and legal in fly-fishing-only waters.

 

I have fished with pegged beads but the way it's commonly done on the Kenai River where it is most commonly done up here is boring to me. It involves floating down the river with a float 11 feet from the pegged bead and waiting for a fish to take the bobber down.

 

They do it with either fly rod or bait casting rod, and to me it's not fly fishing, it's bobber fishing. It's OK, if that's what you want to do, I just don't care for it.

 

I have much more fun tying my own weighted beads with lead wire core and floss or thread outside and casting to fish. I don't care for extra split shots or a strike indicator. I prefer to feel the strike, watch my fly line or "sense" the fish. I don't mind missing a fish or two, the rewards are greater for me when I catch them on my own terms.

 

That's just me though, to each his own. It's all good, it's all legal and it's better for the fish.