Trout spey rods in progress

[Steeldrifter 0]

Just looked that line up vicrider. Will have to do a bit more reading on it...but from what I am seeing so far that line is saying it's a great line for picking up and shooting roll casts and such. I'm going to do almost 100% skagit with heavy sink tips and no real roll casting or scadi type stuff so I'm not seeing where that Wulff line would benefit what I'm looking for (esp for the $80 cost) or am I missing something here?

[vicrider 0]

Bad Rocco, bad. :-(

[heavynets 0]

What's the difference between a skagit, scandi and roll cast?

[Steeldrifter 0]

I'm still learning and reading up but from what I can tell....Basically skagit style uses pretty much no backcast, you are using a more solid prolonged anchor then casting a heavier & shorter head that propels a heavy sink tip and larger streamer a shorter distance and fishing them deep. With Scandinavian style it's using more single/dble spey, less anchor time, floating or less heavy longer heads with smaller flies and trying to reach out a longer distance. So a higher floating less dense or easier roll cast line is more beneficial to scandi style than to skagit style. Or at least that is my take on it so far from what I gather. I'm sure one of the guys that have done that style for a while can chime in though with some better info than I.

[Steeldrifter 0]

spiralspey- just so ya know I sent ya a PM just a minute ago so check your PM's when ya get time. Found a couple of integrated lines that I wanted you to check out and see what you thought of them.

[heavynets 0]

I think you will find that both skagit and scandi casts are just fancy roll casts that require a water anchor, D loop and no back cast. Both scandi and skagit utilize many of the same casts: single spey, double spey, snap t, etc. However, these casts are different in their stroke length, timing, weight shifting, etc. when performed with a skagit vs a scandi line. At least that's my take on it.

[vicente 0]

Steve not sure if you found a line yet or if this one's any good but the price isn't bad, http://www.sierratradingpost.com/airflo-skagit-compact-switchandspey-fly-line-19~p~216tw/?merch=prod-rec-prod216TW they have it in a 450grain.

[Steeldrifter 0]

I think I have the line figured out now as to what I plan to use. I spoke with Steve Godshall the other day and he is familiar with the exact blank I am building on so I got some great recommendations from him as the the grain and size to use. He said a 21'-23' long head with 400grain is the perfect head to use on my blank. Another thing which I sometimes forget is because of my rod business I also get wholesale pricing from some other non rod building product manufactures with one such place being Rio. So I have it figured now what I plan to do for a line setup which will be as follows.

 

I did some searching down in the shop and I found about 70' of good condition old fly line level running portion so I will use that for the running line, then I plan to buy the Rio 400grain skagit head, then I will also be buying probably three of the mow sink tips. That should be a good set up for me for what I plan to do with this rod this spring/summer.

 

Took a while to get this all sorted out, there sure is a lot of info and research to be done when getting into spey that's for sure! I appreciate all the help from multiple guys that shared info in this thread Hope to have the rod finished in a couple weeks with some luck and will post some pics, and then first spey caught trout shortly after that with some luck!

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

Steve, I think you will find that a shooting line (even in an integrated line) is considerably smaller in diameter than your level line. All of the Rio shooting lines are .026" or smaller.

[Steeldrifter 0]

I think you might have read what I said wrong. I'm not using a level fly line as running line. I am using the "level portion" of a DT line (the back 70ft of the DT line before the taper starts). It is .029 on the calipers so pretty much identical to the Rio shooting line in size, yet much nicer to handle since it is not that hard kinky type of line like most shooting/amnesia lines tend to be.

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

No, I understood.

I use an Airflo Skagit Compact head (420 gr) with a Rio Powerflex shooting line on my Beulah 10' 5/6 switch rod. Most of the running/shooting lines today are more user friendly (easier to handle) than the old mono lines. Check out the newer shooting lines and I think you will be surprised how different they are from the old stuff.

[FKROW 0]

I do not understand the frequent reference to Spey casting and Roll cast being the same or very similar.

They are only related due to the line tip being anchored to the water surface which helps load the rod.

 

Most if not 99% of the Single Handed Roll casts I see begin at 1:00 and chop down towards the water with the rod stopping at 9:00 (horizontal). This results in a very large loop and poor distance.

Left Kreh and Ed Jaworowski teach the SH roll cast to start at 2:00-3:00 (rod horizontal to the rear) and finish almost vertically or 11:00, this results in a very nice small loop forward cast with nice distance.

 

Spey casting can be done with any rod,,, short SH or Two-Handed. It is a casting style with many individual casting motions and funny names.

Lines are long traditional belly, shorter Scandi and Skagit along with many hybrids that have tapers of both Scandi and Skagit.

Scandi has long front taper designed for longer leaders and relatively light weight flies.

Skagit,,, well,, think garden hose taper, shorter and heavier than Scandi with pieces of sinking, intermediate or floating lines as tips, designed for heavy wind resistant flies. Mainly used with Tungsten coated tips or T tips with short leaders of about 2ft max.

We use sustained anchor for both Scandi and Skagit, the distance is about the same. Timing is less critical compared to traditional touch and go or airborne casts.

One can easily use touch and go with Skagit, despite what the YouTube experts will claim.

The key to casting sustained anchor with the short head lines, both Scandi and Skagit is the concept of CMCL,,, Continuous Motion, Constant Load,,, this maximized the rod load (bend) and gives easy comfortable distance.

 

Research the line recommendation chart on RIO Products site,, Simon Gawesworth has cast almost all of the rods in the spread sheets and in my experience over the years they fit very well. Note that for a given rod, Scandi is selected then Skagit is approx. 50gr-100gr heavier in weight.

Others who sell "custom lines" will have a phone conversation and somehow have a recommendation for the perfect line,,, usually very heavy for the rod. This is from experience teaching hundreds of students and having many attend with custom set ups or getting the outfit from mail order fly shop recommendations.

 

Remember there is not a correct or wrong way to Spey cast,, if you are happy with the distance and performance of the rod that is fine.

There are more efficient ways to cast and select lines for the individual rods however, I must observe you casting and then have the student test cast light, medium and heavy lines. Only then can we recommend a specific line weight.

The RIO line spread sheets fit 99% of my students.

 

Regards,

FK

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steeldrifter 0]

 

I do not understand the frequent reference to Spey casting and Roll cast being the same or very similar.

 

I agree, when it was said that it's just fancy roll casts I didn't continue on because I've learned now at this age there is no point in trying to change anyone's mind about something online If others feel spey and roll casting are the same then that's fine, it's their choice to feel how they want, I'm not gonna tryin tell'em any different. All I know is this....I have spent about 4 hours today watching an instructional skagit spey casting DVD by Ed Ward, and I WISH spey casting was just simple roll casting because trying to take in all the info in Ed's DVD is simply mind boggling!

[FKROW 0]

The Ed Ward video is excellent, it is confusing at times, not from his dialog,,, it is information overload,,,,, keep rerunning the CMCL and 45 degree thrust sections, they are key to smooth efficient Skagit line casting.

The 45 degree thrust helps prevent Hooking or throwing the D Loop behind your head which leads to collision with your backside and a heavy fly on forward cast. This is the most troublesome problem with new casters.

 

Classic Western Skagit Cast - Line is wrapped to side opposite upper hand, deepest loading for distance.

Snap-T - Sustained anchor Skagit Cast - also excellent with Scandi lines

Perry Poke - with CMCL

Circle Spey - Sustained anchor Skagit Cast - very useful with heavy sinking lines/tips

Wombat Cast - Circle Spey combined with Perry Poke - great for change of direction with max. rod loading

 

 

In addition check out the OPST videos by Ed Ward on YouTube,, also great information on his casting style.

 

Regards,

FK

 

 

[Steeldrifter 0]

Yep that 45 thrust segment was one part I was re-watching numerous times yesterday. You're spot on it's not that Ed is a confusing teacher by any means, it's just that he gives so much info it's almost overwhelming for a new spey caster like myself. I wish the one grass casting segment was filmed from a higher overhead vantage point.