Bimini15 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2020 Not interested in a “how to get started”. I have no aspirations for myself. I am interested in how it works for someone who is chosen by Umpqua or Fulling Mills. Do they tie all of their flies, or do they license them for someone else to tie? Do they simplify patterns for sake of productivity? Probably not a one fits all answer, but I am curious if anyone has any experience after a few comments here and there from Kelly Galloup while watching some of his tying videos. specially interested in how things might have changed over time in the age of communications, crowd sourcing and social media. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Bob LeMay 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2020 Essentially Umpqua (the big dog on the block...) invites tyers everywhere to submit new patterns every year for consideration. They really do need to be something new (can you imagine how many Copper John or Clouser variations get submitted?). Every September they sort through maybe 1000 submissions and may struggle to add fifty of them to their lineup. If one of your patterns gets chosen you’re invited to provide a dozen of them along with a detailed recipe and materials list (and where to get any materials that aren’t normally available through commercial sources). All of this comes with a provisional contract with the tyer. Your samples are sent to one or more “factories” to be reproduced by a lead tyer - then returned to the original tyer for his or her approval (or returned with info on what needs to be corrected before going into production). At this point the tyer hasn’t seen a penny from their pattern(s)... Umpqua’s sales reps go to every one of their customers (fly shops mostly) and take orders every fall - including, with a little luck, your new pattern and those factories get to work ( each facility is a building somewhere in the Orient with 50-100 women tying flies for a living - Can you imagine the logistics of providing all of the materials and hooks needed for their entire catalog of fly patterns?). Finally the tyer makes a small royalty on the wholesale price of their pattern as shops and catalog outfits take delivery of their patterns produced on the other side of the world... Exactly 8% of the wholesale value of each fly sold - as long as Umpqua keeps filling orders for them. My royalties are paid out quarterly and here’s a tip... The wider the usage and popularity of a given pattern, the more your royalties will be. Lastly, if your pattern doesn’t sell, it will be dropped from the catalog and any royalties will end. That has happened to me twice over the years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2020 Additional interesting reading on the inception of the new way, here (scroll down to "background") https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914f55fadd7b0493498a31e/amp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richmce 0 Report post Posted December 26, 2020 bob is right on. i get a royalty on rich's ultimate worm from rainys flies. royalties were down for the first half of the year but jumped nicely in oct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini15 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2020 Thanks for the info. Now I wonder if these days one can bypass the big boys and do your own thing through your own channels in social media and the web. I would imagine you maximize profits by cutting various middle men. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Bob LeMay 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2020 Yes, it’s possible but remember as a commercial tyer you’re selling your labor and there’s a real limit on how many flies you can tie... When you hook up with an outfit like Umpqua, they’re the ones doing the labor and if you come up with patterns in high demand you’ll draw royalties forever.... That’s why the smart tyers write magazine articles about a “hot new fly” to generate demand and the resulting sales at shops around the country ( or the world...). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/26/2020 at 7:20 AM, Bimini15 said: Not interested in a “how to get started”. I have no aspirations for myself. I am interested in how it works for someone who is chosen by Umpqua or Fulling Mills. Do they tie all of their flies, or do they license them for someone else to tie? Do they simplify patterns for sake of productivity? Probably not a one fits all answer, but I am curious if anyone has any experience after a few comments here and there from Kelly Galloup while watching some of his tying videos. specially interested in how things might have changed over time in the age of communications, crowd sourcing and social media. There is a similar thread on NAFF that may answer some of your questions. https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/leading-fly-suppliers.904103/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini15 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2020 Makes sense. And I guess that if you really are a young gun pursuing a career in tying you have to do both: Drum up your own business anyway you can until they pick up some flies, develop new ones which eventually, hopefully, will get picked up as well. All while being everywhere, web, YouTube, magazines, books, shows, ... for people to know and want your flies. By the way, it seems to me that forums like this one are probably not great places for tiers to be. We will not buy your flies, but will tie our own, in some cases, improved versions of your flies. Only so much you should probably share, I guess... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini15 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, SilverCreek said: There is a similar thread on NAFF that may answer some of your questions. https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/leading-fly-suppliers.904103/ Interesting reading. Thanks, Silver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcozzz 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2021 I see flies on this forum that i could never tie or hope to amass the varied materials. then dye them to custom colors.For the fishing i do i am set for life as far as materials go.This site has always been very inspiring and humbling at the same time.I do tie just to tie but mostly to fish with and try to keep things simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2021 On 12/28/2020 at 4:38 PM, Bimini15 said: By the way, it seems to me that forums like this one are probably not great places for tiers to be. We will not buy your flies, but will tie our own, in some cases, improved versions of your flies. Only so much you should probably share, I guess... right there is the other edge of the sword I guess. I'm a weirdo (in more ways than one) in that I've never bought flies, never seriously considered selling flies although I have come up with some super effective patterns, and never refrained from sharing. If I had a brain cell that worked like a businessman's maybe it would be different. I suppose there are people who have had their patterns "poached" by another tyer and commercialized. That would tend to chap one's nads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini15 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2021 Thank God there are lots of weirdos like us... 😊 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
