Octopus

[Leif Ortenholm 0]

Hi Fario....

 

This octopus i have done is not the same material at al that you have in yours,if it was i hade write it and get your cred for the octopus.....this one is not glas blowing technique and no epoxy at al in my octopus.....

im sorry if you feel that the octopus is your own pattern.....but im shore that around the world its tyers that have done simuilar octopus and patterns that dont no nothing about others pattern.....they dont even got computers.....alot of famous tyers have patterns that other tye also,but just because they are famous and have there patterns on internet dont mean that there is no other tyer somewhere that have done it before him....sorry for my bad english also

 

buy tha way Fario your patterns are great no question about it!!!!

 

Leif

[fario 0]

Hi Leif,

 

Thanks for your prompt answer. Sorry to be in disacord with you. If I look well at your pattern I can see that the hook is in identical position as mine, + the body drawing, + the tentacle, + the eyes position, + the respiratory syphon. Except the color you had, I didn't see anychange from the pattern I create more than two years ago and which won Mustad Scandinavian fly tying competition in Norway. Of course every tiers one days copy the other. But I tell you I never saw this pattern before I created it and since I put my site on line six months ago I see by hazard two patterns of such octopus. You have an other one on the same forum by an other guy who sign also it. It seems to be funy that since I created it two people had excatly the same idea with the almost identical material on the same imitation with the same position of each of it's components. Sorry for that but it's hard to believe it. Despite this I recognize that you are a good tier when I see what you can imitate.

 

Have fun and be ready for next patterns. We wait and see for your next creation.

 

Regards

 

Fario.

[Aarne Karjala 0]

Hi fario

Also I am quite surprised to see this. You probably think no one can't tie octupus at this big world ?? on second thoughts if someone try tie realistic octupus right away he try make it looks like real. If he successful do it i think it looks like yours. "Realistic Ostupus"??????

 

And I firmly believe that someone is surely made up everything technique's.. I mean some people is all ready to do it what you just consider.

 

Ok I think all of us have own unicue style, nobody can't tie exactly same octupus, like what you do at there France ...... Do you understanding what i mean ?? :dunno:

 

PS. just fancy it.

 

Aarne

[Graham 0]

We had an interesting topic that started last August about tying Octopus.

 

Thinking about tying Octopus and Squid

 

I think Jean-Louis Teyssié is the undisputed master of tying this style of salt water flies, which are so realistic, it would be hard to duplicate without looking somewhat identical? Maybe I'm wrong? The first time I posted a stonefly step by step on the internet a law suit was threatened by a well known realistic tyer who claimed I copied his fly. I did not copy his fly but removed the step by step anyway. I like to tye realistic flies for relaxation and challenge and in an attempt to avoid conflicts I do not look for pictures of flies others have done, because it seems they've all been done before, I look for two things... A photo of the insect I want to tie as well as artistic drawings of the insect. When I tied my stinger wasp with the claws I was copying the shape and coloring from a drawing. When I recently did my red salamander, from a photo, I thought it may be a first, but I very recently realized that Aarne had done it before me.

 

I think it's great that a forum such as the FTF can bring tiers from around the globe together, to share, appreciate, complement, learn, inspire and copy. Credit should be given where credit is due but I do know that it's possible to create a fly unknowingly identical to a previous fly.

 

 

Graham

[SullyTM 0]

I'm at a loss here fellow tiers. Am I to understand that you have to mention the "originator" of a pattern everytime you tie it and/or post a photo? If I tie a Lefty's Deceiver or Realistic Golden Stonefly Nymph, am I expected to mention Lefty and Salmonfly? I can understand infringing on copyrighted material but if someone is motivated to tie a pattern AND the materials are listed and instructions are posted, isn't the pattern fair game? I certainly thank everyone who has guided me so far and can point out that guys like Graham, Ulf, Aarne, Steelie etal. have motivated me to get better. If there are "unwritten" rules in fly tying I would appreciate it if someone would post them. I do not want to offend anyone. Thanks. SullyTM

[Salmonfly 0]

Who me? Me Salmonfly? And in the same sentence as Lefty ... oh my ... :hyst:

 

It's not me Graham is talking about ... but hells ya .... you should be saying thanks ... :hyst:

 

Seriously ... it's nice to be thought of when you say Realistic Golden Stonefly ... thanks Bud ... but my ego isn't that fragile ... 25 years of marriage have toughened me up good! :whistle:

[Sticky 0]

Hi,

 

I was surprised to discover again this octopus imitation for the second time on that forum. I create this fly two years ago and she get the first price in international and european flytying competition. You can discover it in my site "H2O" at http://teyssie.free.fr/ at the chapter art'ificial F:\SITE\Artificielles\Artificielle.htm In that chapter you will also see realistic flies imitating crustacean, jelly fish, bat, fishes, aquatic and terrestrial insects. I think that when people want to show imitation as creation, the minimum of politess will be to name the signature of the original fly. Sorry for my poor English and good surf on my site. Your comments will be very welcome.

 

JL Teyssié.

 

http://teyssie.free.fr/Artificielles/cepha...pes/Poulpe7.htm

 

Whoa! Nice work! Both of you! :headbang:

[Salmonfly 0]

David Martin does a great Octopus as well ... my point being ... I am sure there are many more out there as well.

David Martin Octopus

[uffepuffe 0]

I agree that it's good manners to give a person credit when using a specific technique that someone has "invented" or even when using a special kind of material that someone has found use for. But as I understand it these three octupusys are tied in three completely different ways, right? As Aarne said, no matter how creative you are and whatever crazy technique you come up with there will most surely be someone else in the world who has already done it.

 

Your flies are amazing Fario, absolutley worldclass! But I see nothing in the way that Steelie and Leif has tied there flies that are the same as you do yours, apart from the actuall look of the octupus. But an octupus is an octupus and it always looks the same, looking at all three flies I would say that they all look super realistic, all almost perfectly imitating the real octopus, and therefor also each other.

 

/Ulf

[Aarne Karjala 0]

But as I understand it these three octupusys are tied in three completely different ways, right? /Ulf

 

These four Octopus's are tied in completely different ways !! Because theirs tyer's are totally different !! every tyer's has own personal style. :thumbup:

 

Nice work! all of them !! :headbang:

 

PS. Can i tie Octopus too ??? :dunno:

 

Aarne

 

[steelie 0]

Good Day,

 

Jean Louis, what a pleasure to see you on the site! What a wonderful thing! I personally thank you again for your help with my first octopus. You assistance was invaluable. Again I am happy to dsee you on the site and can't wait to see a few of your beautiful creations on the site in the future!

 

Bonne journée, Jean Louis, quel plaisir de vous voir sur l'emplacement ! Quelle chose merveilleuse ! Je vous remercie personnellement encore de votre aide avec mon premier poulpe. Vous aide étiez de valeur inestimable. Encore je suis heureux au dsee vous sur l'emplacement et ne peux pas attendre pour voir quelques unes de vos belles créations sur l'emplacement à l'avenir !

 

Steelie

 

[Graham 0]

Just to help put things in perspective, while working today I was thinking about tying a unique octopus. Between the ages of 7 and 9 I lived by the beach in Melbourne Australia, and we were very careful to watch out for the dangerous local Blue Ringed Octopus. I thought it would be real cool to try and tye one. Well, I just got back from work and saw the link Dale provided to the incredible looking blue ring that David Martin tyed. Now I’m back to thinking about a realistic night crawler again. Lol…

 

Graham

[Bud Guidry 0]

so let me get this straight. if i tie a pattern ( realistic) of say, a clown shrimp which by realistic standards should look like a clown shrimp. and by realistic standards should have the eyes, legs. tenticles or antenna, tail where they should be according to natures standards. that being the case. all species of octopus have eyes in the same place. tenticles protroding from the same place. vent in the same place, although some have different colors, we all know they do mimic their surroundings. they change color to blend in with their environment. if one man makes an octopus by realistic standards, ( completely anotomically correct) then another fellow makes one on the other side of the world ,would you be copying his pattern or natures pattern. their should be no confusion to who these patterns belong to. the creator himself developed the uniqueness of our animal world and in my opion, any fly that is tied as a realistic is copying someone eles work who is much greater than anyone here on this forum. realistic tiers make an attempt to create duplicates of natures wonders, make no mistake, the True originator won't ever take credit for the accomplishment. in closing my two cents worth, if i make a realistic blue marlin and another fellow across the world makes one a week later , who would be the originator of the pattern? , would either of us be , or are we copying natures pattern? did i invent the blue marlin thinking i made mine first? I THINK NOT

 

 

Bud

[Graham 0]

Hey Bud,

 

I agree with you completely. I think where the problem arises is not the creatures that are copied, it’s the techniques employed during the tying. The problem I had with the famous tier was not because I tyed a stonefly, it was because I used a technique for making the legs that used thread-over-mono for shaping, without mentioning his name.

 

I’ve read about well publicized realistic tiers getting upset when their patterns tyed by others win competitions. This year I have deliberately tried to never copy other people’s techniques. Even going so far as to buy books, DVD’s, CD’s and videos of realistic fly tying, not to copy, but to know what not to do. I’m trying my best to be original. My last spider eating the midge was not copied, the jungle cock nail tyed over the abdomen looks real cool, but I did not show a picture of this because I did not want an e-mail from someone who did it before and wanted me to give them credit. Thank god I’m not in this for the money, just for fun, but the pro’s can make it difficult. I do occasionally get e-mails from FTF lurkers who complain when a posted fly looks just like theirs.

 

Here’s a link to the stone fly step by step, it was my first attempt at a realistic fly, and I put it on my buddy Rado’s web site.

 

stonefly step by step

 

Graham

[fario 0]

Hi,

 

Thanks all of you for your prompt interractive discussion and support. To be a realistic tier mean that you have to copy the nature. But it's not enought and if you really want to be a motivated passionated ardent tier for fun, you have to give more than realistic shape to your flies but attitude. I could understand that tying logics when making realistic or hyperrealistic flies meet join to almost identical shapes. But when you realistic tied since years you can evaluate if your model are copied or not by the position of the hook (throught the abdomen), of the components (tentacle, eyes, respiratory syphon...) and by the proportion of these components. The on body drawing are identical of mine on the octopus body copy etc. etc. I understand that octopus imitation look identical from far but if you have any imagination you can tie them with different shape, material.

 

To be copied at least it's an honor but not for commercial intention. I remember when I get prize to Mustad scandinavian competition with beetle, lucane, bat, marine turtle, prey mantis, euphausiid, cephalopods, vertical and horizontal streamers etc. Months after people were tying copies of such flies under their own name and participated to competition forum etc. I wasn't very happy because despiting copying nature, I spent a lot of time researching new material, developping techniques, tying with attitude for behaviourist school, making nice pictures of such flies, writing papers in UK, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, French revues, sharing with people and at the end you discover the copy of your flies under other names in forum, competition, journal...You can see actually copies of my marine turtle on Italian site for commercial... I tell you I am under stress sometime. If I tie flies, it's only for fun not for commercial and surely not for stress. It's only to share, not to be copied for media and commercial. If I put a site online, it's to share and believe me or not, as I am not a computer man, it's take me time to realize it within all pictures and texts. Please respect my work and the work of all tiers. Be polite, ask authorization for exact copy or give reference or at least be in contact and discuss like some people did on this forum for octopus.

 

All tiers know that the most important think is not techniques but the ability of creating. Essential is to share and I am quite happy that because of this sterile story, we are in contact and we exchange idea. Interractive communication is quite important in the fly tying world. More we will know each others, more we will respect each others.

 

Sorry for my terrible English.

 

Have a nice day everybody.