Dry fly durability; dubbed body or quill body?

[Hellgrammite 0]

Hello folks.

 

I tie only 6 different patterns anymore to represent all non-huge mayflies (big drakes still get their own pattern) and have been using dubbed bodies ribbed with various colors to represent segments. However, i do like AK Best's book "AK Bests Fly Box", wherein he recommends that fly bodies be tied with stripped quills or biots. Can anyone shed some light for me as far as which is likely to be more durable, a ribbed body dubbed with hareline (the type i use atm. I am not married to it in any way, just one multicolored box has all the colors i use!) dubbing, or a quill body? If there isnt a huge difference, I will probably begin using quills...they do look better (to me, anyway) and probably dont wick up water as bad as dubbing.

I have tied stoneflies and caddis larvas with quills, and they do look excellent (i just havent had an occasion to actually use either yet!)

 

Thanks, Tim

[Horseshoes 0]

Hi,

 

I am not that experienced in tying but I just finished tying for a swap and used quills on the body instead of all dubbing. At first I was hesitant but I have to be honest. I was surprised at how easy they were to use. I liked the look of them also. Durability? I will have to wait until they have been put through the test. They are well worth the effort though.

Sorry if it doesn't totally answer your question but for ease of tying with a great end result, I would recommend the quills.

[utyer 0]

I will stick to dubbed bodies. Yes quills look good, and biots look fine too, but for durability, a properly dubbed body will outlast either. It will take a lot of fish to chew the dubbing off a hook, but sometimes the first fish will cut through a quill body. Then it unravels, and becomes useless. You can counterwind quill and biot bodies with very fine wire, but thats an extra step, and coating with a layer of cement slows down the tying process waiting for it to dry. Usually my dubbed body drys end up getting lost before the body wears out. Sometimes I'll loose them on the first backcast, so durability becomes less important. I do tie up the ocassional biot body, or quill body, but the majority (90%) of my dry flies are tied with dubbed or foam bodies.

[rockworm 0]

The biot- and quill-body flies, when well-tyed, look more like a natural and catch more trout. But a well-tyed dubbed body is certainly more durable.

 

Since I tye my own flies I can afford to value effectiveness over durability. And I do like the look of quill-body flies! By the way, the durability of biot-body flies can be increased considerably using a simple technique described by AK Best in his books. Basically you just wrap thread and biot up the shank together; the thread is laid down on top of the leading edge of the biot and is subsequently covered up by the overlapping next turn of biot.

[smallieFanatic 0]

Have to say quill bodies.

[caddis44 0]

I think quill bodies look more realistic but I don't really like tying them. Dubbing is more durable and so much easier to work with (for me) that I tie 90% of my flies with dubbing. I can also tweak my dubbing colors more to my liking. You can't do that with quills.

[JRG 0]

I like using thin strips of sili-skin to make bodies but what I've noticed so far is it will break down within a year. I've had biot bodies come apart too, but I don't use any type of glue or head cement to strengthen them, but sometimes they break at the tie in point (the small tip) after some time. Quill bodies seem a litle more durable if you get a good tight wrap but as mentioned it's not hard for a tooth to cut it but they'll typically last a good while if you're lucky. Can't go wrong with dubbing though..... it's cheap, easy, and much more versatile.

[steelie 0]

Good Day,

 

I have seen it done... apply a small amount of nail polish to the hook shank before wrapping the biot or quill.

 

Steelie

[jimmywhiplash 0]

Hi

 

I like both dubbed and quill When I use quill I put a very fine wire rib up the body I use old transistor wire which is around half a mm thick and is very strong for its thickness

this just helps make the fly last a bit longer

[kerusso 0]

I prefer the quills and biots over the dubbing for a couple of reasons. To me, it looks far more realistic. Like Steelie said, if you put down a base of cement, then wrap the quill or biot, then cement again it makes for a very durable fly. Also, I dye my own biots and getting the right color usually doesn't pose a big problem. Lastly, biot or quill bodies on a dry fly do tend to float "easier" from my experiences. I must add that the only time I use biots on dry flies is when I'm tying cdc comparaduns. I've also used some bleached, then dyed, moose mane with good success. I've never had a fly come apart on me after one or two fish. They do get chewed up after a while but it doesn't bother me one bit to have to re-tie after 12-15 fish. I was fishing a quill midge last Fall and caught 22 fish before it no longer looked like a midge. Just my thoughts.

[Futzer 0]

I tie large numbers of biot bodies, and here are a few of my tips. I only use quills on very small flies, the segmentation proportion is too small for anything larger than a 20. I soak most of my quills and biots in water before I tie with them and let them drain a bit on paper towel prior to tying in. As for biots and durability, yes agreed dubbing lasts longer, however biots are plenty durable. I clip the point of the biot so the tie in point is a studier thickness. Biots towards the base of the feather are thicker width than the ones at the feather tip. Use the width according to the size fly you are making. If you look closely at a biot, it has a natural curve to it from base to tip, wrap that with the direction of the curve and not against it, the biot with be less likely to crack and fail. I tie in my biot, two wraps, one behind, then one in front. I make a carrot shaped base on the hook with thread, then I put a small drop of thin head cement on the thread base. I wrap my biot in over the wet cement. I tie it off with two wraps perpendicular to the biot base. then I wrap a couple wraps completely over the end biot segment all the way around the hook. I add one more tiny drop of cement to the tie down. All said, I can do biot body mayflies in 4 to 5 min each. So I do not think it is a slow method compared to the realistic body look.

 

Happy bioting, Cheers Futzer.

 

As always I am here all week, so post if you have questions.

[Dart 0]

Hey Futz, I'm back to tying and I'm hitting it hard (just ordered my first fly rod today from DHise ) Can you post some pics of these bodies? I'm assuming the patterns look similar to your cadfly? I have Metz goose biots, stripped... is that what you guys are using? They seem awful small for anything larger than a 18...

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[Futzer 0]

Hey Dart, Good to see you twistin' thread. Yes, exactly like a Cadfly. The biots should easily finish a #14, and most times up to a #12, beyond that I usually use 2, with the second tied in backwards, thick side first. Let me know how you are coming along. I have not been lurking as much, most of the CardioVascular team here has been let go, so I am living in your shoes. What rod did you choose? I am sure Dave took care of you.

 

Cheers, Jeff.

[Dart 0]

Hey Dart, Good to see you twistin' thread. Yes, exactly like a Cadfly. The biots should easily finish a #14, and most times up to a #12, beyond that I usually use 2, with the second tied in backwards, thick side first. Let me know how you are coming along. I have not been lurking as much, most of the CardioVascular team here has been let go, so I am living in your shoes. What rod did you choose? I am sure Dave took care of you.

 

Cheers, Jeff.

 

Maybe I just have some bad biots. But goose biots is what I should be after, right? It's rough to work so much, but we should consider ourselves lucky to be employed is how I have to look at it. As for the rod, I went with the TLS 9' 5 wt., mid flex. I have an Orvis shop 20 minutes from my work, but I had to give Dave the business. If he made enough off of me to buy himself a 6 pack of IPA, then it is worth the wait to have it shipped. I had to get in on the free large arbor battenkill reel combo while it was still going.

[the saltydog 0]

i put a bit of cement on the hook before wrapping the biot or quill, this gives me good durability and doesn't slow me down for tying since there is no reason to wait for the cement to dry as its below the surface. Futzer is right that you have to soak these things in water for a bit to get them to soften up and this removes the dynamic tension they have against the hook if you wrap them dry as they will mold around the hook and reduce their desire to unfurl.