Dubbing loop vs wax, pros cons, best usage of each?

[Missouriflies 0]

I've almost always dubbed with a loop. Tonight i tried some wax on some smaller flies than i normally tie (usually 8 is my small limit but these were size 12). It was Ok but different, aside from getting all waxy the fibers tend to wrap vs stick out like they do when i use the loop (i know about brusing them out). To some extent it was easier but when wrapping around or through legs and chain eyes I had a bad feeling the dubbing was hardly held down.

 

Can anyone elaborate on the pros and cons of wax vs loop dubbing. I'd be really interested to hear what anyone has to say on the topic.

thanks

[Aqueous1025 0]

Im just getting back to tying again (its been 20 years). I never heard of a dubbing loop until I got back into tying flies again. I always use a little wax even though I use pre-waxed thread and twist the dubbing on. When I get it right you could pick and brush away for hours and not pull it all off. Im still fairly new coming back to it and have not used a dubbing loop yet for comparison.

[notenuftoys 0]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is a dubbing loop will give you a buggier looking fly, and just twisting the dubbing on the thread (whether with wax or not) allows a tighter body. That's worked for me, so with a loop I don't have to pick out the dubbing as much to get a fuller looking body. This Exploding Caddis was done with a loop, and I didn't brush it out at all.

 

[rockworm 0]

notenoughtoys has it right. A dubbing loop makes it easier to create a bushy body whereas dubbing directly onto the thread can lead to a tighter, smoother body. (Except when you employ the "touch dubbing" technique.) However, one should never apply so much wax to the thread that your material starts "getting all waxy." The trick is to use very little wax and use your fingers to twist the material around the thread. After I wax my thread I pull it through my fingers to remove excess. (Note: I am talking about an amount of wax that is not visible to the naked eye.) In fact some tyers apply a small amount of wax to their fingers from time to time instead of putting it on the thread. Others prefer to apply dubbing after moistening their fingertips in water (or saliva.) Again, the secret is to let your fingers do the work. You want the dubbing wrapped tightly around the thread- not glued to it. (If you want to glue your dubbing, see Rosborough's book The Fuzzy Nymphs on the use of cement when dubbing. Polly also pioneered the use of the fur noodle- a great way to build a dubbed body where the fur is on the outside of a dubbing loop.)

[joefly79 0]

I agree, I use a dubbing loop for my wet flys and nymphs. I use a little bit (a little bit is key) of wax and twist the dubbing around the thread for my dry flys and emergers. The loop gives me a nice buggy body, twisting the dubbing gets me a nice smooth body.

[JSzymczyk 0]

try to do some dubbing without wax at all. Some types of dubbing will spin onto the thread very nicely without any wax.

[Guest]

Here is a link to some videos on you tube on dubbing. May be of help or interest.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fly+tying+dubbing+techniques&page=1

[Guest]

I agree with most of the above posts. When I want a nice tight body like a catskill style dry fly I use wax. Very little wax and lots of pressure to apply the dubbing to the thread. This gives me a nice tight body that I can control the taper of very easily. When I'm tying nymph's and loose things I'll use a loop, they are both just tools and both have their places.

[kentuckytroutbum 0]

For dubbing techniques and dubbing loops, go to this video that flytire sent me:

 

http://ukflydressing.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sbs&action=display&thread=4046

[Crotalus 0]

Wax your fingers not your thread. Just rub a little on your fingers and it will help the dubbing stick to the thread. I followed AK Best's recommendation to melt the wax into a small dish then you can just run your fingers across it before dubbing.

[Missouriflies 0]

notenoughtoys has it right. A dubbing loop makes it easier to create a bushy body whereas dubbing directly onto the thread can lead to a tighter, smoother body. (Except when you employ the "touch dubbing" technique.) However, one should never apply so much wax to the thread that your material starts "getting all waxy." The trick is to use very little wax and use your fingers to twist the material around the thread. After I wax my thread I pull it through my fingers to remove excess. (Note: I am talking about an amount of wax that is not visible to the naked eye.) In fact some tyers apply a small amount of wax to their fingers from time to time instead of putting it on the thread. Others prefer to apply dubbing after moistening their fingertips in water (or saliva.) Again, the secret is to let your fingers do the work. You want the dubbing wrapped tightly around the thread- not glued to it. (If you want to glue your dubbing, see Rosborough's book The Fuzzy Nymphs on the use of cement when dubbing. Polly also pioneered the use of the fur noodle- a great way to build a dubbed body where the fur is on the outside of a dubbing loop.)

 

Touch dubbing...whats that? A guy i know says he touch dubs with high tax wax...I assumed it was just wax the thread pinch and roll...just googled it...I think i like loops for big bodies, takes some extra steps especially when tying i a collar behind the eyes an then finishing the head, but something to play with none the less.

All good descriptions and advice, thank you all.

[rockworm 0]

notenoughtoys has it right. A dubbing loop makes it easier to create a bushy body whereas dubbing directly onto the thread can lead to a tighter, smoother body. (Except when you employ the "touch dubbing" technique.) However, one should never apply so much wax to the thread that your material starts "getting all waxy." The trick is to use very little wax and use your fingers to twist the material around the thread. After I wax my thread I pull it through my fingers to remove excess. (Note: I am talking about an amount of wax that is not visible to the naked eye.) In fact some tyers apply a small amount of wax to their fingers from time to time instead of putting it on the thread. Others prefer to apply dubbing after moistening their fingertips in water (or saliva.) Again, the secret is to let your fingers do the work. You want the dubbing wrapped tightly around the thread- not glued to it. (If you want to glue your dubbing, see Rosborough's book The Fuzzy Nymphs on the use of cement when dubbing. Polly also pioneered the use of the fur noodle- a great way to build a dubbed body where the fur is on the outside of a dubbing loop.)

 

Touch dubbing...whats that? A guy i know says he touch dubs with high tax wax...I assumed it was just wax the thread pinch and roll...just googled it...I think i like loops for big bodies, takes some extra steps especially when tying i a collar behind the eyes an then finishing the head, but something to play with none the less.

All good descriptions and advice, thank you all.

 

Touch Dubbing is a term coined, I think, by Gary LaFontaine to describe the application of minute quantities of soft dubbing to a thread well-waxed with tacky wax. It is not rolled or pinched but rather trapped between the thread and the hook as the thread is wound up the body. This results in a delicate, translucent body exhibiting the colour of the thread under a very fine "halo" of dubbing.

[Missouriflies 0]

Touch Dubbing is a term coined, I think, by Gary LaFontaine to describe the application of minute quantities of soft dubbing to a thread well-waxed with tacky wax. It is not rolled or pinched but rather trapped between the thread and the hook as the thread is wound up the body. This results in a delicate, translucent body exhibiting the colour of the thread under a very fine "halo" of dubbing.

Yeah, thats funny cus this guys flies are not delicate or fine, perhaps he builds layer over layer...I will stick with my loop, does me just fine.

[crawfly 0]

The dubbing loop is a long favored technique for me. From split thread sparse load to fur noodle insert to a regular loop you can achieve a wide variety of body types. I only wax apply to one leg of the loop with a not so tacky wax as it inhibits the movement of the material in the loop, otherwise. Loops can take a little more time but it pays big dividends in the end result.

[Missouriflies 0]

The dubbing loop is a long favored technique for me. From split thread sparse load to fur noodle insert to a regular loop you can achieve a wide variety of body types. I only wax apply to one leg of the loop with a not so tacky wax as it inhibits the movement of the material in the loop, otherwise. Loops can take a little more time but it pays big dividends in the end result.

 

Thanks Crawfly, I think you are correct. for what i do, bigger fatter flies with longer stiffer fibers, i think the loop is the way to go. even though i often have to stop, unspin the loop, thin, tie down, add a hackle, then respin and finish the head and eyes...I like the results i get.

Dubbing is just so much "fun" and produces the best bodies..., can't tell you how much my flies, fly tying, available options, have improved since i started dubbing flies and making my own dubbing. Do it!