Carp Frustration

[ditz2 0]

I am currently in IN and I found a large pod of carp in the river that goes thru town. I have fished this pod for 2 days pretty hard. There are some biguns mixed in and a few small 2 or 3 pounders as well. Most are in the 8 to 12# range. The water is murkey but I can see muds and sometimes they will come up enough to see their backs for a few seconds. These fish are feeding. I can't get them to eat my flies. I think I have had a couple of takes but I am not good enough to tell until it is too late. There is a lot of people activity along the river so maybe they are just are just too smart for me.

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

hi ditz, sounds pretty common, carp can be pretty frustrating to catch on the fly but an awesome challenge. My fishing is usually in clear water so i can see the eat but i suspect you may have had a few eats but it didn't register. I really like to keep a tight line to the fly at all time, no slack. Much like permit fishing where you will anchor a crab infront of the fish, take can be an inhale and spit out really quick. If u feel anything strike!

[TheCream 0]

My first question was going to be "Are they feeding?" Apparently they are if you're seeing mud clouds. That's usually my cue here in Ohio. My suggestion to you for strike detection is use an indicator. I use one 90% of the time and I don't care if someone thinks less of me as a fly fisher because I do. Their takes can be really subtle and tough to detect. I can tell you of literally one carp I have caught that aggressively chased a fly and ate it, the rest have been sips on the surface or sips off the bottom. I use a small Thingamabobber and set at any movement in the indicator. Usually it's a real small "tick," sometimes it just moves slightly, sometimes it just stops if there is current. What color fly are you using? If the water is really stirred up, I'd start with black. Also, in dirtier water, you really need to almost smack them in the face with the fly. I get a lot of strikes when I strip the fly right past their eyes from behind the fish (fly moving from rear of the fish towards its mouth) and just kill the fly, let it drop.

 

Keep at it, you'll get one on the line soon!

[ditz2 0]

They were eating....I later found them just "resting" in a group and I quit and went home. I have pretty much ran the gammet on colors. The one take I am sure that I missed was a San red Jaun worm with a brass bead tied in the middle of the hook shank. The only one I had with me and of course I lost it on the bottom. I tried unweighted, beadchain, and lead. I did seem to have better control of the lead ones but I lost most of them to the carp gods. There is some current but not much in the large pool these fish are holding in. This pool is a 100yds or more long. I have found a couple in the riffle above the pool that appeared to be feeding as well. Real shallow but I could not get close enough to see if they ate the fly. If I got too close the fish just slowly melted away towards the middle of the river or further up or down stream. I would fish the pool down to upstream and then go back and start all over. They seemed to be aware of my presents and would usually just move off a little when I presented the fly. I did line a couple and they were history quick and the others around would sort of move off. I have never used an indicator but have no qualm in doing so. Ain't any within 60 miles of here though. I did tie a hopper set up to use as an indicator. I might try that. It was quite windy with the breeze coming right up the river so I am having trouble with accrucy. I did make some good presentations however. I was just guessing on the fishes direction in the muds. The water is just too murkey to see the fish.

[heavynets 0]

I've caught a few carp in Indiana's muddy water. I've been skunked a lot too. My best luck has been with a crawdad fly I tie and black, brown or olive woolly buggers. I can't see or feel the take, I just see the line start to straighten out. They say carp have a keen sense of smell. To help get rid of unwanted scent, rub the fly in the mud and try not to handle afterwards.

[Piker20 0]

Try a fly that will land point up and you can twitch in the mud to make little clouds. The carp are drawn in to the silt moving. Also try to land the fly with a good plop! Feeding carp will hear this and look for the fly falling in the water.

[mikechell 0]

I grew up in Logansport, IN. When I saw big schools of carp sloshing around in the shallows, they weren't feeding, they were breeding.

But, back then, I would fly fishing with corn on the hook. A few kernels of canned corn could draw a strike almost every time. The Wabash and Eel rivers ran through that town, and both were full of carp. No trout or salmon, nothing with large eggs, so I don't know why the corn did so well. I never caught one on an artificial fly, but I fought tons of them taken on corn.

[Hoyt archery 0]

My experience with carp proves they are not easy to catch. I have made a great many perfect presentations, the carp were not impressed. They will react quickly to a bad cast however. Carp are very shy, so they can't know your there. The 2 carp I've recently caught both hit the fly hard. No question at all. One was caught on a carp pattern from this site. That same fly has also caught bass & bluegill. The other was on a bunny fur crawdad of my own creation. Since your water is dirty I would suggest a fly with several rubber legs for added vibration. Keep at it, carp are tough but well worth once you have one hooked.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Cream described how I fish them except I haven't used an indicator as the water is usually just clear enough that I can read the fish when he takes like with redfish. I like using dark colors with an orange tail and the orange tail isn't for the fish although carp do seem to like orange just fine; it's mostly to make the fly easier for me to see and keep track of it to help manipulate it into the right place in relationship to the fish. My presentation starts after the cast. I cast away from the fish and lift the rod to pull the line and guide the fly into position, when it is near the fish's head/eye, I let it drop, if they turn on it, they'll usually eat. If they don't turn on it, I work it away from them slowly, ease it up and make another cast and present to them again. Sometimes I may make a bunch of casts like that to one fish before he sees the fly and eats. Then again, I've had days where I made a hundred or more casts and only had three or four takes and one hookup. Other days, I've made half that many casts and had a dozen takes with long distance releases and some landed and some missed strikes. With the murky water, an indicator may help. You don't need a "fly" indicator. Find a store that sells tackle for bream fishing and use one of those small bobbers as they come out of the pack or cut it in half and thread it up your leader and peg it that way you can adjust the depth.

 

Kirk

[Peterjay 0]

maybe they are just are just too smart for me.

 

I suspect you're right on the money with that one, but since you've identified the problem, there's still hope. FWIW: when I was doing a lot of trout fishing in deep, slow, warmish water, I used to fish a nymph right on the bottom with a VERY slow retrieve - instead of actually stripping, I'd wind the line onto my left hand and keep the fly moving barely fast enough to keep a tight line. We didn't have carp, but occasionally a sucker would grab the fly. I don't know if carp are any smarter than suckers, but from what I hear, they're probably smarter than carp fishermen.

[Piker20 0]

maybe they are just are just too smart for me.

 

I suspect you're right on the money with that one, but since you've identified the problem, there's still hope. FWIW: when I was doing a lot of trout fishing in deep, slow, warmish water, I used to fish a nymph right on the bottom with a VERY slow retrieve - instead of actually stripping, I'd wind the line onto my left hand and keep the fly moving barely fast enough to keep a tight line. We didn't have carp, but occasionally a sucker would grab the fly. I don't know if carp are any smarter than suckers, but from what I hear, they're probably smarter than carp fishermen.

You nailed it.

[ditz2 0]

maybe they are just are just too smart for me.

 

I was having some deep misgivings as I typed this statement and I should have listened to my little voice. I did open myself up and ole PJ jumped right in. heheheh

 

I did use the technique that Kirk suggests much of the time because of the wind which would not let me be as accurate as I wanted. Some of them did turn on the fly as indicated but I could not detect any take and I was trying to keep a straight line to the fly. I also had several just ease off as the fly approached. I only spooked a couple during the 2 days when I lined one and another one when I set the hook too early. I actually line a couple of others but I did not move the line until the carp moved on and they seemed indifferent to the issue. It was a learning experience and I had a lot of targets. The first day I was using my 5wt and I did feel a little under gun'd so I armed up with my 7wt the second day which gave me better control in the wind as well. I hope to get back on them before I head home.

 

I have seen carp in a spawning frenzy and this was not a spawning action. I am sure they were feeding.

[Phish 0]

Try a tandem rig. A large white wulff in size #6-10 and a 12" dropper using a freshwater shrimp.

[bullship 0]

I don't think I've ever actually felt a carp take my fly, which is why it's so hard to do in really muddy water, or why it's just hard to do. I second, or third, or whatever, an indicator/bobber in that situation. Carp fishing often requires spidey sense and jedi mind tricks. Other times it's easy and I still screw it up. Keep at it. You'll get it figured out. Frustration is just part of the deal.

[mikechell 0]

I grew up in Logansport, IN. When I saw big schools of carp sloshing around in the shallows, they weren't feeding, they were breeding.

But, back then, I would fly fishing with corn on the hook. A few kernels of canned corn could draw a strike almost every time. The Wabash and Eel rivers ran through that town, and both were full of carp. No trout or salmon, nothing with large eggs, so I don't know why the corn did so well. I never caught one on an artificial fly, but I fought tons of them taken on corn.

When I wrote this, I had completely forgotten the canoe trip when we caught a bunch of very large carp under one catalpa tree that was dropping blossoms. We tied on the largest white flies we could to duplicate the blossoms. I think we set a hook on every carp under that tree.

That trip was the only time I caught carp on artificial.