Catskills style flys question

[Ty Flyer 0]

What is the difference between Catskill style drys and normal patterns such as a wulff?

[utyer 0]

Catskill style flies were and are tied much thinner (for the most part,) in the bodies, They are not as heavily hackled, and the wings are either flank feathers, or duck quill slips. Tails are hackle fibers, and the bodies are either quills, floss, or finely dubbed. The style is more suited to the more gentle waters of a lot of the eastern streams. One distinctive feature of the Catskill style is that they are tied with about an eye width of bare hook behind the eye.

 

Wulff patterns are tied with thicker bodies, hair tails, and hair wings. They use as much as twice the number of turns of hackle. They are well suited to the faster and often rougher waters both east and west. The heads are finished off right at the eye.

 

Catskill flies were developed FIRST, in the Catskill streams of New York, and to many they are the "classic" style. The Wulff flies were developed by Lee Wulff. and are a newer style.

[flytire 0]

 

 

click on photo to enlarge

[Randyflycaster 0]

This tying video might help:

Randy

[phg 0]

That's funny, that you consider a Wulff "normal".

 

For most, a Catskill style is "normal" for a dry fly. The style has evolved a bit, since Darbee's day, although he was an undisputed master tyer. Modern materials, not the least of which is the genetic hackle, have subtle altered the end product.

 

I know I tend to use a turn or 2 more hackle that Darbee did. I do that because our streams tend to be more turbulent than those in the Catskills. I also tie the head right up to the eye of the hook. I do this because the knots I use don't require any clearance on the hook shank. We don't claim it as an Appalachian style, though, just a practical modification of the original Catskill style.

 

The Wulff style is a further modification that was designed to float in the even more turbulent waters out west. The fly didn't have to be as realistic, but it did have to be more buoyant.

[Ty Flyer 0]

 

 

That's funny, that you consider a Wulff "normal

Well they are in my fly shops catalog,

I'm not saying its right, however.

[SilverCreek 0]

That's funny, that you consider a Wulff "normal".

 

For most, a Catskill style is "normal" for a dry fly. The style has evolved a bit, since Darbee's day, although he was an undisputed master tyer. Modern materials, not the least of which is the genetic hackle, have subtle altered the end product.

 

 

I concur that what preceded would be considered "normal" and the latter a variation. So a Catskill dry for me is the standard up-wing dry fly tied to imitate a mayfly.

 

A Catskill dry fly in my opinion differs from a Wullf series flies in another way.

 

I consider Catskill dry flies as imitative patterns, while the Wulff series of flies that began with the Royal Wulff falls more into the attractor fly category.

 

So not only do the two types of flies vary in how they are tied but also in the theoretical method they use to fool the fish.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=rUpYAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=attractor+dry+flies+vs+imitative+dry+flies&source=bl&ots=5VZwXBy2o8&sig=ed4g8167W_SewpUZqR_9xvuWa5o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-lOjU-32MMWPyASclYD4Cw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=attractor%20dry%20flies%20vs%20imitative%20dry%20flies&f=false

[hairwing 0]

Just my opinion....

 

T. Gordon is given the nod for father of the dry fly in the States. His flies were versions of flies by the English angler FM Halford with whom he corresponded.

Roy Steenrod was befriended by Gordon and learned of Gordon's technique. After Gordon's death Steenrod took over tying for Gordon's customers and the flies he was tying. Steenrods flies I think, became the building block for the Catskill Style fly. You can google Steenrods flies and have a look for comparison. Roy Steenrod was different than Gordon in that he was more than willing to pass on his tying techniques to all comers. Gordon was secretive, protecting his style from others who would copy it and steal his business.

I don't know where the Turle knot space behind the eye came into vogue but it definitely has a foothold on describing the style. All the early resident commercial Catskill fly tyers were looking for something of an edge to make their flies stand out and sell. I suspect the Turle knot space was a marketing ploy.

Lee Wulff was an innovator and not so likely to follow contemporary style. "Different" was in his blood. His first Wullf's were imitations for hatches in the Catskills and the style was brought west with Dan Bailey who fished with Lee in the Catskills. Dan Bailey could make any fly renowned through his fly shop in Trout Country and the rest is history. Bear in mind that Lee was imitating the same hatches that the Quill Gordon's and Hendrickson's, et al were simulating and worked just as good.

[flytire 0]

additional wulff history

 

http://www.overmywaders.com/index.php?quack

[hairwing 0]

The "Quack Coachman" has it's place in fly pattern history, however, the fly would have disappeared from lack of use had not Dan Bailey put Lee's take into his fly catalog. I don't recall Lee Wulff ever claiming ownership of the fly but obviously Lee liked the fly and it became one of his favorites. .....as in...."offer them strawberries and cream".

Lee did tie the fly differently than the "Quack"....the "Royal Wulff" as tied by him is his fly.

The Coachman and Royal coachman go back a long ways and who hasn't made a tweek here and there to the pattern ?

Lee Wullf and Dan Bailey made the fly, not Quackenbush.

[mikechell 0]

Wrong terminology, I think, by TyFlyer. He should have written that Wulff flies are more "common" not more "normal". In his neck of the woods, local fly shops might have tons of Wulff patterns for sale, but no Catskill styles.

Don't take things so personal. I don't think he was blaspheming your God Wulff.

[troutguy 0]

Too many flies have big crowded messy heads. The Catskill type fly was always very neat. I love the look. I remember seeing flies in Dette's and Darbee's houses and other local tiers. My Grandfather's boxes had masterful flies from local tiers. The flies were perfect. Even the flies it the Little Store in Roscoe were delicate.

 

My friend bought several dozen flies off ebay last week. They are cheap. They will catch fish, but they are tied God knows where and by God knows who. The heads are a mess.

 

Having met both Lee and Harry, their flies were very different. I think, unfortunately that we have to some degree homogenized the variations of flies.

 

I suggest reading Catskill Rivers and Land of Little Rivers both by Austin M. Francis and Mike Valla's Tying Catskill Style Flies to answer your question