What makes the Law so good?

[agn54 0]

I don't understand collecting. Its just a drive I don't have. I say that so you will understand where I am coming from. It isn't worth £2K However, that's nearly 4 1/2 times the original price. It represented good value at that price, which put it in the price range of most top level vices. It wasn't the most expensive. (I think that accolade went to the Abel).

 

There is one thing that trumps everything else for me when choosing a vice. Access to the hook. Of all the vices I've used the LAW is by far the best in this respect. The original specification for it was written by Hans Weilenmann. There is no compromise in it, all the materials are the best available for the job they do.

 

Prior to the LAW I was tying on a Barracuda so that is a comparison I can make first hand. Something like 70% of all the flies I tie are size 16 or smaller, therefore most of the time I had the Barracuda fitted with midge jaws. Well that is a job I haven't had to do in the 9+ years I've used the LAW. The one set of jaws does everything. As a production tier I put a lot of hooks through a vice, the midge jaws lasted me 9 to 12 months a set. (I know they have a 2 year warranty, but If you use the vice more in a year than most will in five, is it right to claim on the warranty?) Had I continued using the Barracuda, I would have used enough sets of midge jaws to pay for it a second time. The cost to me of that vice would have been much more than the original price of the LAW. In that respect it represented good value.

 

On every other rotary vice I have used the tension adjustment for rotation has been by a screw acting on the rotating shaft. That means that the adjustment from locked to free is in less than 1/4 turn of this screw. That makes precise adjustment impossible. The LAW uses a taper mechanism that gives over two turns of adjustment. Making precise adjustment simple.

 

In a very subjective way, there is a great pleasure in using a tool that is well designed, and functions. That is something I can not express in words. Perhaps it is just that the vice isn't working against me in any way.

 

I'm unable to really compare it as I have only tied a couple of flies on a Renzetti Master. I have no idea how much of an upgrade it would be. That is why I like my LAW so much.

 

What are you looking for in the tying of nymphs that the Renzetti doesn't give you?

 

There is one thing that strikes me in all the debates about vices. A better vice (like any tool) will make what you are doing easier to do. It will not improve your tying. Anyone who thinks that it will would get more benefit by using the money to take time off work, and do nothing but tie for that time. If you can't tie a fly on a £100 vice you will not be able to tie it on a LAW at £2000. £2000 represents 4 weeks average wage here. Taking 4 weeks off to practice tying will do more for your tying than spending the money on a LAW.

 

If you still want to get a new vice take a look at the Petitjean. It is worth considering along side the vices you mention.

 

Cheers,

C.

This is an excellent post. When it comes to dropping money on a vise, production tiers have extra things to think about, especially in terms of the vise's ability to withstand long term use and abuse, as well as things like interchangeable jaws as opposed to one size fits all. Of course this does not mean you need a LAW or even a $400 vise to be a production guy, but when you spend that many hours at your vise, you want one you really like and is expedient to use.

[shoebop 0]

Yes, it was a futile attempt at sarcasm. I would hope no one...including barrytheguide...took it with any sincerity.

 

That's what the emoticons are for. To tip your hand and let us know what you are thinking because we can't read you mind or your body language.

[afraid not 0]

Yes, it was a futile attempt at sarcasm. I would hope no one...including barrytheguide...took it with any sincerity.

 

 

Tell me you're kidding! I just used your post to convince my girlfriend to buy me a Law vice for my birthday, since I want to start tying flies this winter. Now I feel kind of silly.

[mikechell 0]

 

Yes, it was a futile attempt at sarcasm. I would hope no one...including barrytheguide...took it with any sincerity.

 

 

Tell me you're kidding! I just used your post to convince my girlfriend to buy me a Law vice for my birthday, since I want to start tying flies this winter. Now I feel kind of silly.

 

Naw ... it's as good a reason as any. Keep it to yourself and get the vise ... all relationships have SOME secrets.

[SilverDoctor 0]

FWIW, I tied for years on a Renzetti Master before I got one of the last LAW vises before LW stopped making them a few years ago. I love the Law, primarily for the ease of adjustment and the access to the hook, but if I'd never tried the LAW, I'd still be delighted with the Renzetti. Although I think the LAW is a real step up from the Renzetti, it's not a step worth taking at the cost of well over $1000. If you're dissatisfied with the Renzetti, I'm sure there are vises much less expensive than the LAW that will improve your tying experience. As Crackaig observes, the LAW won't improve your tying, although you may find you tie more often because it's such a pleasure to use a beautifully functional tool.

[barrytheguide 0]

FWIW, I tied for years on a Renzetti Master before I got one of the last LAW vises before LW stopped making them a few years ago. I love the Law, primarily for the ease of adjustment and the access to the hook, but if I'd never tried the LAW, I'd still be delighted with the Renzetti. Although I think the LAW is a real step up from the Renzetti, it's not a step worth taking at the cost of well over $1000. If you're dissatisfied with the Renzetti, I'm sure there are vises much less expensive than the LAW that will improve your tying experience. As Crackaig observes, the LAW won't improve your tying, although you may find you tie more often because it's such a pleasure to use a beautifully functional tool.

I am not actually looking to purchase a LAW vice, but the access to the hook on the standard Renzetti Master is somewhat hampered by the large blunt jaws. Now I find I can buy a set of midge jaws for it, that might well solve the problem

As a observation the CAE vice is very close to the LAW and would be a excellent lower cost alternative if it wasn't for its reputation of poor quality.

My other choice of the J Vice is hampered by the lack of a metal base.

[Ed Gallop 0]

Everyone has their own opinion and mine is that the LAW it a beautiful work of art (has class). I almost bought several years back but had the chance to tie on one a friend has. I'm glad I didn't spend the money because I much prefer my Dyna-King Barracuda for holding power, control, and stability. Another tier I know told me they tied on a traveler although she had a LAW. The jaws are tightened by screw, not lever, and sometimes you have to back off and screw in a few times to get it tight enough. The Barracuda is a much stronger vise and I tie #22 midges to Tarpon flies with the two jaws. You need both with most any vise. If I couldn't have my Barracuda I'd go with the NOR Vise (second favorite), or a couple others that I've tried out, before buying a LAW at half the price it cost. That is just my opinion though.

[Si_ 0]

 

FWIW, I tied for years on a Renzetti Master before I got one of the last LAW vises before LW stopped making them a few years ago. I love the Law, primarily for the ease of adjustment and the access to the hook, but if I'd never tried the LAW, I'd still be delighted with the Renzetti. Although I think the LAW is a real step up from the Renzetti, it's not a step worth taking at the cost of well over $1000. If you're dissatisfied with the Renzetti, I'm sure there are vises much less expensive than the LAW that will improve your tying experience. As Crackaig observes, the LAW won't improve your tying, although you may find you tie more often because it's such a pleasure to use a beautifully functional tool.

I am not actually looking to purchase a LAW vice, but the access to the hook on the standard Renzetti Master is somewhat hampered by the large blunt jaws. Now I find I can buy a set of midge jaws for it, that might well solve the problem

As a observation the CAE vice is very close to the LAW and would be a excellent lower cost alternative if it wasn't for its reputation of poor quality.

My other choice of the J Vice is hampered by the lack of a metal base.

 

Why don't you get the Jvice without a base? The money you save on not shipping a base could go towards having a metal one made. Alternatively, I am pretty sure that Snowbee will sell the base for their "Waldron vice" separately if you contact them. I agree that the pictures of the CAE vice look beautiful, but I have read a few too many bad reviews on it. If you buy the Jvice I can assure that you will not be taking any chances on shoddy workmanship.

[Bugsy 0]

Re: JVICE

If you source your own pedestal, you can ask Jay to either take the last couple inches of the standrod down to 3/8", or do it yourself. It's less than 0.02" difference, so it's very little material to remove. Or ask to have the rod made from 3/8" stock; he may have acquired some by now. His wood base isn't inexpensive, but it does have some functional features that you don't get with a standard pedestal.

[SilverCreek 0]

"Good nymphs cannot be tied on anything other than a LAW."

?????????

 

An example of hyperbole.