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Can elk be substituted for deer on a rolled muddler?


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36 replies to this topic

#1 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:34 AM

Gotta do up some rolled muddlers in a hurry and realized tonight that I am really short on suitable deer hair. Was wondering if natural elk could serve as a substitute till I hit up the shop? Will only be using a small pinch as the pattern is generally tied very sparse. I'm tying in the sizes 6 to 12 on standard TMC nymph hooks. Any advise or alternate material thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Chuck



#2 Piker20

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:41 AM

Elk is not as buoyant as deer hair generally so not a perfect swap in a muddler but you might get away with it.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#3 flytire

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:43 AM

yes


The fish care less than we do!


#4 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:45 AM

Elk is not as buoyant as deer hair generally so not a perfect swap in a muddler but you might get away with it.

Cheers Piker. That gives me a confidence boost. I just tried a pinch of the elk it tends to flair more than deer. 



#5 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:46 AM

yes

Thanks Norm.



#6 mvendon

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:08 AM

Elk can be more durable than deer hair too. I never have any problems with flotation that I've noticed. I use it all the time for spun hair patterns like Turck Tarantula's.

 

Regards,

                  Mark



#7 Dave G.

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:22 AM

I prefer deer to elk in general for things with hollow hair. But then my deer patch is really a lot of skin with a really lot of high quality deer hair and my little elk hair patches basically all suck. Says a lot about me being too cheap to buy some good elk hair I suppose. Sometimes in caddis flies I will use some elk hair because my elk patches are lighter colored than my deer hair. Hmmm.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#8 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:48 AM

Thanks you guys. Here's what I'm trying to do. Seem to come out okay! Little more flair than I'd like, but I doubt the fish will mind.

P8130026_zpsb91xyus7.jpg



#9 Dave G.

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:56 AM

That should catch some fish ! I'm guessing it would come out a little neater ( especially the head would trim up easier) with deer hair but again, refer to my conditions listed in my last post lol . But sometimes fish specifically don't like neater.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#10 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:06 AM

That should catch some fish ! I'm guessing it would come out a little neater ( especially the head would trim up easier) with deer hair but again, refer to my conditions listed in my last post lol . But sometimes fish specifically don't like neater.

Thanks Dave. I was going for sparse. I'm prolly still using too much... and hoping to get a little of the red thread showing through. I've got 11 more to go so I'll hopefully get this pattern down.



#11 feathers5

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:27 AM

Thanks you guys. Here's what I'm trying to do. Seem to come out okay! Little more flair than I'd like, but I doubt the fish will mind.

P8130026_zpsb91xyus7.jpg

That's a cool fly. I bet it's a great trout bait fish fly. Is that what you're trout are eating? I've never hear of these, but they look like they would get down in water column quickly.



#12 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:19 AM

 

Thanks you guys. Here's what I'm trying to do. Seem to come out okay! Little more flair than I'd like, but I doubt the fish will mind.

P8130026_zpsb91xyus7.jpg

That's a cool fly. I bet it's a great trout bait fish fly. Is that what you're trout are eating? I've never hear of these, but they look like they would get down in water column quickly.

 

From what I can tell Feathers the rolled muddler was developed on the northwest coast as a salmon and sea run cutthroat pattern. Being a highly versatile pattern it can be tied in a number of sizes and colors to target different species. In most cases it is meant to be a small fry or minnow pattern and tied sparse...very sparse. I'm not really doing the pattern justice yet, but I want to use it for sea run dace in a local river. This morning, I was getting their interest on a Doc Spratley and feel this pattern will be killer in size 12 to 6 both gold and silver body. I'm sure it would be great for trout as well!



#13 mvendon

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:34 AM

Hi Chuck,

 

 Your pic doesn't enlarge much, but if you want the wing to stay closer to the hook shank in the back, take a turn of thread or two completely around the hair clump before laying it down to set it. At the tie in point, don't use as much tension at first when tieing it in. Increase the tension as you move ahead wrap by wrap. It sort of looks like you have another clump that's spun ahead of the wing, but it's a little hard for me to see it in the size you have. 

 

Regards,

                Mark



#14 Chuck McFarlane

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:03 AM

Hi Chuck,

 

 Your pic doesn't enlarge much, but if you want the wing to stay closer to the hook shank in the back, take a turn of thread or two completely around the hair clump before laying it down to set it. At the tie in point, don't use as much tension at first when tieing it in. Increase the tension as you move ahead wrap by wrap. It sort of looks like you have another clump that's spun ahead of the wing, but it's a little hard for me to see it in the size you have. 

 

Regards,

                Mark

Thanks Mark. Your spot on. I'd completely forgotten about that hair collection technique. Used to do it all the time with unruly furs and feathers especially buck tail and moose mane. Yes there is a second clump spun in front. Some tiers suggest it as an option. I'm still in traditional muddler mode so included it to give a fuller head look. A lot of the rolled muddlers I've researched look like they've got just little tufts on top for the head...very similar to an E.H.C. but trimmed tighter. I'll post bigger pics next time. Appreciate your feedback and help.



#15 flytire

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:50 AM

with the hairs held close to the hook, a drop or two of uv resin will keep those hairs from flaring too much


The fish care less than we do!