An unbiased look at the Nor Vise

[Gene L 0]

That's what I'm looking for. I thought about buying one from time to time, but every time I see one of the videos, I say "Why?" Maybe if I tied a lot of flies that require winding, like copper johns, but as much as I'd like to, I simply can't see much of an advantage for average fly tying. And I wish I could.

 

Is there an advantage I'm missing here? They're conceptually neat, but ???

 

To a lesser extent, I'm kinda asking many of the same questions about a rotary vise. I've got a great one, and also got an HMH, and find myself tying on the HMH more. I don't use the rotary function as it should be used, and believe I'm not alone in this. Hans Willenman in his videos seldom (if ever) demonstrates the rotary advantages, neither does Davy McPhail. Now, this may be because they want to show tying so even those with non-rotary vises can use them, or it could be because they learned on a non-rotary (like me) and stayed there.

 

My Renzetti holds hooks at least as well and I think better than the HMH. It's solid and easier to adjust.

[Piker20 0]

I have to agree that as someone who does not use a 'true rotary' vice I think that I am missing a trick and that my tying will be somehow improved if I get one. But as you say, plenty of folk tie great flies without this function. I've always thought there is a huge amount of tackle envy within fishing and its always a good feeling to be using the best rod, lastest line, etc. I think as fly tiers, the vice is the biggest statement we can make, unless you join the $100 bobbin club.

[flytire 0]

It sure will be interesting to read the "unbiased" opinions on this one

[Crotalus 0]

Lately the only time the true rotary function on my Renzetti gets a workout is when I am tying copper johns and brassies. For most everything else i wrap the materials manually.

 

BUT

 

The ability to turn the fly and work on it from different angles is priceless. I dont think i could work nearly as well on a fixed head vise without a lot of practice.

[whatfly 0]

GeneL:

 

Seems to me that you have already made up your mind about the merits of rotary tying techniques, so one fails to see how a hypothetical "unbiased" review would change your attitude. There are many advantages to rotary tying techniques (refer Al Beatty's book for example), and the Norvise may well be the best true rotary vise out there for that style of tying. But even if that were so, would you really change the way you tie? Probably not.

 

There are many solutions to the same problem, so there is no reason why one needs to resort to rotary techniques to catch fish, but there are certain applications where it does make life easier. I am personally not a fan of the Norvise, having played with one for a time, but I still use true rotary vises to tie some patterns just because it is the most efficient way of doing so. And generally speaking, I still prefer tying on true rotary vises because they allow the tier to rotate the fly on the same plane on demand, rather than force the tier to adjust to the plane the hook is held at, as with a non-rotary (e.g. Griffin 2A) or plain rotary vise (e.g. HMH).

 

YMMV.

[Gene L 0]

No, I don't have my mind made up, I just have options. I've used my Renzetti to wind hackle and wind dubbing, but don't do it instinctively, I have to think about it.

 

I didn't mean for this thread to get off on a tangent on rotary vises, I am trying to understand the allure and the marked loyalty of Nor Vise users. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Rhen 0]

No, I don't have my mind made up, I just have options. I've used my Renzetti to wind hackle and wind dubbing, but don't do it instinctively, I have to think about it.

 

I didn't mean for this thread to get off on a tangent on rotary vises, I am trying to understand the allure and the marked loyalty of Nor Vise users. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

I think the allure is the same that one person has for a Chevy over a Ford and vice versa. It is just a matter of what one likes and what works best for that individual. I tie on a Barracuda Jr. which is a true rotary vise and cost as much as a Nor Vise does. I love it but I am trying to sell it so I can buy a Nor Vise. It is just something I want.

[Panama Red 0]

No, I don't have my mind made up, I just have options. I've used my Renzetti to wind hackle and wind dubbing, but don't do it instinctively, I have to think about it.

 

I didn't mean for this thread to get off on a tangent on rotary vises, I am trying to understand the allure and the marked loyalty of Nor Vise users. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

I think the allure is the same that one person has for a Chevy over a Ford and vice versa. It is just a matter of what one likes and what works best for that individual. I tie on a Barracuda Jr. which is a true rotary vise and cost as much as a Nor Vise does. I love it but I am trying to sell it so I can buy a Nor Vise. It is just something I want.

 

I have a NorVise and all the gizmos that go with it. I use the rotary function to make hackle ropes, dubbing and apply chenille, however, the function I use most is the four point indexing.

 

BUT... Just like Rehn, I really just wanted one. I also have a Renzetti Clouser model and have a serious jones for a Regal which I will get sooner or later

 

People tend to use what makes them happy (and are willing to pay for), I feel the best opinion you'll get would be from a test drive with an experience NorVise user.

 

Good luck and have fun!

[slapwater 0]

I have only tied on a Nor-vise once so I am no expert but it seems that while it does have the characteristics of a true rotary vise the differentiating factor and main selling point is in the lathe function that goes above and beyond what other rotaries offer. I personally didn't find much use for the lathe functions and will likely never own a Nor-vise. However, I love a true rotary vise for a variety of reasons. For example, I just tied a few boxes of bonefish flies. Most of them had lead or bead chain eyes tied on top of the hook shank but the rest of the fly (rubber legs, flash/fur/hair wings, etc.) tied to the underside of the fly. Turning the fly over without having to take it out of the vise jaws saved me a bunch of headache. Even for something as simple as picking out the thorax on a hairs ear it is really nice to just rotate the fly. As far as using the rotary feature to wrap materials, sometimes it is great, other times it is easier to just wrap. I never use the rotary to wrap thread or dubbed thread. I'll also usually just pass longer materials around the hood from hand to hand. But when you want to squeeze one more PMD out of the last inch or two of a particular saddle hackle, it is really nice to be able to maintain a firm grip on it with one hand while rotating the fly rather than having to pass the nub of a feather over and under from hand to hand only to lose your grip and have the whole thing come unraveled. Personal preference is key but from my perspective, my true rotary offers extra features without compromising much if anything so even if I rarely use the function it makes sense to have it available. I do find that I use it pretty regularly though.

[utyer 0]

As a LONG time user, I wouldn't consider myself "unbiased," but I see the point in not wanting to miss anything. I have tied on many vises, and there isn't ONE of them I couldn't tie on again. Many tiers go on a journey of "discovery" when it comes to vises. Some just want to try every new thing that comes along. There is NO feature on ANY vise that one cannot live without. Remember the vise is a relatively "new" tool for fly tying. Before that, your hand was the vise, so really, no tier HAS to have any vise. Just for kicks, try tying a few "in hand," you will appreciate the vise you do have a lot more. Its a lot easier to tie with a vise, any vise. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be dozens and dozens of makers all trying (without success so far,) to make the "ultimate" Vise. When and IF the "perfect" vise ever does come along, it will be the end of almost all competition. There will still be a market for the beginner vises, and the casual vise, but if the perfect vise is out there, any serious tier would be a fool NOT to move to it.

I have (almost,) always tied with a vise, and I have owned dozens over more than 45 years. When I first saw the Nor-vise, I just had to have one. I bought mine from Norm right then and there. The Nor-vise was a very different vise when it first came out. Not everyone liked it, and many people "hated" it. I can't see why anyone would generate such strong feelings for a FLY TYING VISE, its just a tool after all. The Nor-vise is "true-rotary," and yes there are several other vises that are also "true-rotary." What the Nor-vise does that other vises do not do well, is SPIN on the axis of rotation. It spins fast enough to dub the thread, and fast enough to make dubbing brushes. I tie a lot of fuzzy bodied leach patterns and for that the Nor-vise is ideal. So for me that feature is enough. There are some (a very few,) other vises that will also spin, but not nearly so well.

Now just because it spins, is not reason enough to run right out a buy one. Many people may never use the feature. Many people may not take advantage of many of the features that their present vise has, but that doesn't mean they should sell those, and get a vise with fewer features. I like using my Nor-vise, and I am confident that it will be the last vise I will NEED to buy. Only time will tell if it is the last vise I in fact do buy. Every time I purchase a vise, I think its the last one, but the Nor-vise was 20+ years ago, and I still like it.

The only way you are going to get an unbiased review is to try one out and do your own review. Buy one, use it for 6 months, if you don't like it, sell it or trade it. I have done that with many different vises. No vise I have ever used was perfect, and that would include the Nor-vise. I can tie flies on any vise I want to, and I chose a Nor-vise. For me, I haven't seen a reason to change.

[whatfly 0]

I've used my Renzetti to wind hackle and wind dubbing, but don't do it instinctively, I have to think about it.

Then you have answered your own question. Why do you think you need to hear about an even "better" true rotary vise than your Renzetti when you don't even use the one you have enough to be familiar with it? The Norvise is a true rotary vise and you have to embrace that technique to get the most out of it.

[Gene L 0]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I guess the bottom line is that most vises work just fine. It's a matter of preference, which confirms most of what I have been thinking all along. I'm lucky to have two great vises, as are others on this board.

[oldtrout58 0]

I don't have a NorVise (yet).

 

About two years ago, maybe three years?, after reading Rotary Tying Techniques by the Beattys, I started applying material to the hook using the rotary function. It took awhile to get used to doing so, but it's how I tie now (for the most part). I figured since I had a rotary vise I might as well use it as a rotary vise.

 

I find that I do a much better job ribbing a fly using the rotary function and I tie faster now.

[Prybis 0]

Gene L.,

 

I have a Nor-vise that I use. It did take a little bit to get used to using the rotary function of the vise. I had a cheap rotary vise before the nor-vise that was a real pain to use the rotary function on. The ease of this on the nor-vise is what drawn me to it. I watch all the videos on you tube over and over for at least a year before I purchased mine. As others have said to each his own. Vises are just like cars, some like fords and some like chevys. Just need to try them until you find the one you like.

 

Mike P.

[FrequentTyer 0]

I have been using a NorVise for several years now. I do use the rotary feature, but not for every thing that it could be used for, and not for every pattern. I have no idea why I use rotary when I do, it just feels right at the time. But for me at least, the rotary feature is not the main reason the NorVise has become my primary vice. I find it to be a well made, rock solid tool that I enjoy using. The other vise I use often is a Dan Vise. Again, it is solid, holds hooks well, and feels good to my hands. I have owned or tried many other vises that people are passionate about, and while I find them to be well made, they just don't typically feel as good to me.

Why are some people so passionate about the Norvise? It is a great vise by most standards, reasonably priced, American made, pretty to look at, sold by a company with excellent customer service, and comes as part of an integrated system (automatic bobbin, thread post, light, etc.).

Why do some people seem to hate it? Maybe because you have to learn to hold your hands a little differently? I don't know or frankly care, and neither should anyone else considering buying any vise. The standard answer to questions like this has to be "try it and see if you like it."