Head cement deterring fish?

[ChromeAddict 0]

Has anyone experienced the scents from their head cement putting off fish? Maybe catching more on an un-cemented fly than one with cement? I watched a video where someone was tying a carp fly, and he only used a small drop of thin water based cement, saying that the fish can smell the head cement, and will stay away from it. It seems unlikely, but I thought I should ask you guys.

[Fish For Life 0]

In moving water fish dont really have time to smell what is food and what isn't. So for moving water i would say that it doesn't matter much. In still water on the other had fish will have extended periods of time to smell and determine if what they are looking at is in fact food. So fly smell will matter significantly more. I have found that many head cements although may smell when applying to the fly, will dry with very little to no odor. In the end moving water or still water, the less smell on the fly the better. Even if slightly, it will increase the chances of the fish not refusing your fly.

I like using crazy glue which drys hard and leaves no scent, so i dont worry about it much.

[oldtrout58 0]

In the 70's (perhaps in the 50s even) steelheaders on the West Coast would never pump gasoline on their way to the river if they want to catch anything. I think there is more to it than just an old wive's tale.

[tidewaterfly 0]

IMO, any "scent" can put off fish that may feed heavy by smell such as Carp. But, haven't experienced it as a problem as far as I could ever tell. This type of question has been discussed before. I look at it this way, most any material we use that's been processed, such as fur or feathers, or even synthetics, will have a certain "scent". With handling the materials & flies, we add to that scent with our own. Dyes used on materials, being chemicals, are also likely going to have a scent associated with them. So, how do we determine what's causing a potential problem & what's not?

 

Again, I've yet to see a problem I could identify and I cement most all of my flies.

[mikechell 0]

We don't have Common Carp here in Central Florida, so I can't speak of those fish.

Bass and Sunfishes ... I don't think the cements/sealants make any difference. My only reason for thinking this, is the fact that people using artificial flies almost always out-fish people using live bait.

I've always believed that was because fly fishing inherently covers more water, presenting to more fish. But it also shows those fish aren't "put off" by any scents associated with the flies.

[TheCream 0]

I have had carp act spooked by flies that had a lot of adhesive or head cement on them. I modified a saltwater pattern for carp a couple years back that had bead chain eyes coated in epoxy (I used Liquid Fusion). It looked killer, but I had refusal after refusal on that fly, and several fish turned away hard when they got close to it. I assumed the LF head was possibly the issue. I took the fly in my fingers and rubbed the silty muck of the mud flat into it really well for several seconds to try to knock some of the scent off of it. Did it work? Well, I caught fish on it immediately after doing that, so I'd have to say it made a difference. I no longer cement thread wraps on any carp fly, and any fly with the LF coated bead chain I really try to rub some silt into them before I use them.

[flytire 0]

when in doubt leave it out

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=41987&hl=%2Bhead+%2Bcement+%2Bodor&do=findComment&comment=350485

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3769&hl=%2Bhead+%2Bcement+%2Bodor&do=findComment&comment=31923

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2329&hl=%2Bhead+%2Bcement+%2Bodor

[mikechell 0]

Sight fishing ... carp, bonefish, LMB ... etc. It's easy to see what's "working" and what's not.

Cream, your experience would support the "it DOES matter" school of thought.

 

Coffee colored water makes sight fishing difficult. But your post has me thinking.

My go to fly is my "Panfish Attractor". (similar to a charlie, before I knew what a charlie was) I've always used something on them to make them as durable as possible.

I am going to tie up some without.

I'll go through an area w/cement ... no hits, go through again w/o. (possibility of turned off fish not hitting the 'w/o' just out of conditioning, so ...

Next area, I'll go through first w/o.

 

Maybe I'll have a more definitive answer to this question, soon.

[Dave G. 0]

For a long time I wouldn't use Sally Hansen Hard as Nails because of the smell unless the fly could sit for months. I used regular fly shop head cement which has slightly less odor. Then I went through a time where I had no time to tie, except for right before heading off to fish and I used no cement but maybe a dab of wax in the whip. In my unscientific experience I thought I caught more fish that way to be honest.

 

Now I'm retired I have time to tie and have been using head cement and Sally's too. But this is what I notice. I tie my smaller flies nymphs and such and store them in empty prescription bottles, even size 14 and smaller dry flies are in them ( I have plenty of bottles on hand, I take too many prescription drugs is what that says). Anyway, try this if you have some prescription bottles, use some Sally's as head cement and in an hour or so put them in a bottle and close it up. Periodically check it out, open it up and take a whiff. It will still stink two months later. Tie some and put them in another bottle the next day, basically the same result. I would never tie and use Sally's and go fish with that fly the same day for sure, I swear it turns the fish off even if it means they just won't hold on to it if they take a swipe at it. This has been an on going casual work in progress so to speak.

 

For the record, Sally's is very pungent smelling even after drying an hour or more compared with say Rumpf . And for the record I'm not a huge fan of head cement in general on fishing flies that I will use any time soon. Sally's smells like acetone and Rumpf smells less like acetone and it's smell is less offensive sooner when air drying. But bottled up levels the playing field a little bit, they both stink. Leave them out to air dry several days before storage is just my personal suggestion. But you all should conduct your own experiment on this.

[Cold 0]

I'd say it depends on what you're fishing for and in what conditions.

 

High gradient stream with wild brookies? They're hunting by sight, and in those fast and turbulent flows, a little stink isn't going to matter at all.

 

Slow river flats to cruising carp? They're hunting as much by smell as sight, so you may have a valid point there.

 

That being said though, as others have mentioned, most of the rest of the tying materials used on a pattern are also doused in various pungent chemicals too, so it's not like leaving cement off of your fly means it doesn't smell.

 

Ultimately, there's a lot of confirmation bias both ways, though.

[ChromeAddict 0]

Thanks for the help everyone. This forum is great.

[PapE 0]

I'd put my $ on the bet that having a roast beef with tomatoes and onions sandwich would leave more scent than a tiny drop of instant drying cement. My $0.05's worth of opinion

[Jokey 0]

I recall an article in BC Outdoors way back when that recommended the trolling guys spray their spoons with WD-40 before putting them in the water. 20 years ago or so but still....what a thing to do.

 

J

[mikechell 0]

I'd put my $ on the bet that having a roast beef with tomatoes and onions sandwich would leave more scent than a tiny drop of instant drying cement.

LOL ... if you rubbed your fingers on the fly before you washed them. Then again, that would be a better scent and might entice a few of the "brawlers" in the school to bite.

Considering the sensitivity to scent in the water, I've no doubt fish can smell things on flies we are unaware of. The question, for me is, does it matter?

I remember reading an article where they tested several scents, natural, man-made and "unwanted" on bass in a tank. If I remember correctly, things like urine, coffee and sweat didn't affect them either way, they didn't "care". Bug spray and some sunscreens put them completely off, avoiding anything it was on.

Most manufactured lure scents also seem to have a neutral effect on the fish.

Of course, natural scents like night crawler, insect mash and bait fish mash worked wonderfully as an attractant.

I do NOT recall if they tested any adhesives or paints, but many chemicals were definite turn offs.

[SilverCreek 0]

I don't use head cement unless I want a shiny coating on the head like a streamer. I use a 5 turn whip finish to lock the thread.