Making Marvin Nolte's 721C Wax

[flytire 0]

 

"Wax for Fly Tying - Fly Tying Tips - Volume 5, Week 12 Fly Angler's OnLine" (flyanglersonline.com)

[flyflinger 0]

This was very interesting, and thank you for sharing. 

Do you have any idea how it compares to good ol' Overton's Wonder Wax?  Or perhaps that comparison is best applied to the "dubbing formula" vs the one you show here which is the "tying formula".  It is impressive how well a good tying wax helps with thread slippage/avalanche . . .  

I frequently use wax, but I'm guess that those brave souls engaged in tying those intricate salmon flies would really use this to their advantage!         

Regards,

 

[flytire 0]

i believe there is a dubbing formula in both the video (422C) and the link (514C) i provided

i have no intention or capacity to compare any "tying" vs "dubbing" waxes

lack of $$$

[SalarMan 0]

What I have learned from my experience with both everyday wet and dry flies as well as classic Atlantic Salmon flies is actually quite simple. Overton's...which I still use...is great for getting dubbing to stay in place on the tying thread. This is especially true with things like seals fur and pigs wool. As far as using these modern dubbing waxes for any other tying applications other than dubbing...they are just plain too slippery.

They do not have the tacky quality need to help hold many small feathers in place when working on classics. Installing items such as the topping used for the tails, Indian crow, toucan and chatterer for veilings. Conversely it is something that is NOT used when tying in a married wing, but is fine for the wing on something like a Durham Ranger.

It should be used sparingly and only for those applications I mention above.

Hope this helps.

[DFoster 0]

On 5/28/2023 at 10:02 AM, flyflinger said:

This was very interesting, and thank you for sharing. 

Do you have any idea how it compares to good ol' Overton's Wonder Wax?  Or perhaps that comparison is best applied to the "dubbing formula" vs the one you show here which is the "tying formula".  It is impressive how well a good tying wax helps with thread slippage/avalanche . . .  

I frequently use wax, but I'm guess that those brave souls engaged in tying those intricate salmon flies would really use this to their advantage!         

Regards,

 

Tim  Flagler has a brief explanation of tying wax here-   I use the Semper Fly stuff because it's what's available, tying wax is hard to find in most of my local fly shops.  I'm amazed at how many American fly tiers don't use the stuff or even know the difference between tying and dubbing wax.  I pretty much learned to tie watching Davie McPhail and Oliver Edwards video's, both of whom preach "wax your thread".  That was all the convincing I needed.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF0tRNJpCQI&list=PL-x7IXRms3aXO5wQ1ab2yk2zi1otsswvD&index=9

This is how Davie McPhail prepares his wax-  I use this method because a small piece stuck to my forefinger remains supple and tacky from body heat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN4N92G14Xg&list=PL-x7IXRms3aXO5wQ1ab2yk2zi1otsswvD&index=31

 

[flyflinger 0]

Good stuff!  I have followed Davie McPhail for years.  I tried his "wax button on the finger" technique, and just couldn't get accustomed to it. 

My Fly Tying mentor, many years ago coached me on tying wax vs. dubbing wax, but to be honest I just always used Overton's for everything.  I may buy some of the Veniard stuff to try . . . or even get motivated to make a batch of Nolte's 721C.

Do yo think the Semperfli wax is a good tying wax (vs dubbing wax)? . . . and perhaps similar to Veniards?   

Regards,

           

[niveker 0]

2 hours ago, flyflinger said:

Do yo think the Semperfli wax is a good tying wax

I use the Semperfli tying wax as well as some cobblers wax (homemade, I think) I received from a generous member here.  It depends on what I'm tying, mostly to minimize thread buildup on smaller/slimmer patterns, or to change the color of silk thread.  They both work well, prepped as in the link provided above by DF. I can't get the blob to stay well enough on top of my finger, so I keep it tucked inside the knuckle of my index finger. I have never used the Veniards, so I can't compare. 

I don't have any Overtons, and the few brands of dubbing wax I have used I'm not overly impressed with, about the same as toilet ring wax, imo.  Dubbing wax I only use for dubbing, not as a substitute for tying wax. And then it's usually just for touch dubbing or for dubbing very unruly material.  Usually, I just dampen my fingers.

[flytire 0]

i have overton's wax (the newer batch, not the old batch) and it dries out even with the cap on 👎👎

[DFoster 0]

1 hour ago, flytire said:

i have overton's wax (the newer batch, not the old batch) and it dries out even with the cap on 👎👎

I bought some Overton's roughly 5 years ago.  I think it's new batch?  I haven't had any issues with it drying up.  

[flyflinger 0]

I didn't know anything ever dried out in New England! 🤪  (my parents were both from Massachusetts)  

I have a tube of Overton's that must be 15-20 years old - still seems fine . . .

Regards,

 

[flytire 0]

 

dried and crusty

[DarrellP 0]

For dubbing most things I use plain beeswax.

[DFoster 0]

On 6/4/2023 at 8:43 AM, flytire said:

 

dried and crusty

I never doubted your statement Norm, just thinking you got unlucky and bought a bad batch?

[flytire 0]

i'm not sure of your response but i criticized the wax not anybody else who responded

[DFoster 0]

 

On 6/6/2023 at 3:39 PM, flytire said:

i'm not sure of your response but i criticized the wax not anybody else who responded

 I realize that Norm, and please understand I took offense.  I'm just saying that Overton's has a great reputation and that perhaps you just got a bad one?  Maybe the guy mixing the stuff at the plant that day was hung over or just found out his wife was leaving him?  😦 You never know-