"Commercial" Tying

[SalmoSalarFlies 0]

Hi guys,

 

I am considering trying the whole commercial tying thing on a small scale - I've done so before, but only for friends etc.

 

At present, I'd consider myself an intermediate level tier - my flies look good, fish well and most importantly, they last more than one fish!

 

I'm aiming to find ways to streamline my process and I've identified that the slowest part of my tying is creating mixed hair tails for salmon shrimp patterns i.e Ally's shrimp and Cascade shrimps.

 

Has anyone got any tips on how to streamline this process? It usually takes me ~4 minutes to mix a tail up to a level that I am satisfied with (I might just be overly fussy)

 

Having assessed my average tying time and cost of materials, I'm keen to shave a few minutes off my process as I'll be turning ~50% profit and averaging 3-4 flies per hour.

 

I have considered mixing the tail hair up in bulk in a hair stacker but I'm unsure if this will yield consistent tails across, say - 30 flies.

 

Also, has anyone got any tips on increasing durability apart from waxing thread before each material is added and gluing/varnishing everything in?

 

Furthermore, has anyone got tips on improving consistency?

 

I've considered breaking my flies down in stages for this i.e tying tails in for each fly, then continuing to the bodies, then wings, hackles etc - or should I tie one at a time?

 

Regards,

 

Stuart

[tidewaterfly 0]

Stuart, I tied commercially for 15 years, and the majority of the flies I tied were done in stages. Only very simple flies were tied completely, except for final finish on the heads. For example, if I was tying Lefty's Deceivers, and had 50 flies to tie, I would pair all the tail feathers first, placing them in plastic sleeves as the first step, then they would all be tied to the hooks as the next step. If I was adding flash to the tails, it would all be done as the same step. My next step would be to add body wraps ( I used braided mylar a lot) & tie in the hair collars, adding flash if needed in the same process. The final step would be finishing the heads with a coat of epoxy. This way I was only working with a single or sometimes up to 3 materials, seldom more than this.

 

It's not difficult to break down the steps on most flies, but you may have to develop your own steps that make it easiest for you. We all tie a little differently.

 

For consistent flies, I made marks on my vice for length, or often kept a small metal ruler handy if the flies were longer. I would also keep a "standard" sample of all the patterns I tied, and would place it on my desk when tying that pattern. I would compare newly tied flies to the "standard" as often as needed. A visual comparison is usually all you need to keep things consistent. The more you tie a pattern, you should develop a certain degree of consistency anyway.

 

 

 

If you can afford to do so, tie your most popular patterns ahead & store them. This way, when you get orders, you'll already have them in stock, or at least a good portion of them. I found that most buyers appreciate fast service!

 

Word of warning, don't take on more than you can handle. Limit the patterns you will tie. Nothing will lose you customers faster, than not getting orders done on time!

 

I primarily tied saltwater & bass flies, some panfish flies, and only occasionally trout flies (terrestrials, nymphs & streamers, seldom dry flies) when I had time, but made it a point to limit my orders & the the number of patterns I would be willing to tie. Learned this the hard way!

 

Best of success to you!

[Steve P 0]

but made it a point to limit my orders & the the number of patterns I would be willing to tie. Learned this the hard way!

 

This is the most important piece of advice given EVER ANYWHERE. It's not all the glam most think it is and really can be a pain in the arse most days but if you really like it then go ahead, just make sure your passion and love for fly tying does not turn into a job.

 

Steve

[jhammer 0]

I'm fairly new to the commercial aspect myself. From what the other guys told me, and from what I do, perhaps I can offer a tip or two.

 

I tie very simple and quick to tie patterns. Flies like woolly buggers/worms, Panfish Charlies, and foam bugs. The first thing I do is get all my material ready beforehand. Sometimes, I'll plan a whole day of tying and spend the previous day getting all my materials organized, trimmed, and selected. When I tie, I usually do one right after the other. Keep in mind that different flies call for different measures though. With some flies, it's a million times more efficient to do a step or two and move on. For example, say I'm tying a dozen panfish charlies. If I tied up the whole fly one at a time, I'd be there forever wasting time waiting on the cement to dry on the eyes. I tie in the eyes, cement, and move on. Then, when all 12 are cemented and done, I go back to the first fly and finish it. Either way you tie, you'll learn which measure works the best for you.

 

Best piece of advice would be exactly the same thing that's been said. Don't take on too much at once and get yourself overwhelmed. Take it one step at a time and branch out slowly. I almost had a nightmarish situation about a week ago. Luckily, I was able to keep my end of the deal and squeak by. Everyone was happy. Hope I could help a bit. I'm pretty new to the commercial game as well.

[SalmoSalarFlies 0]

Hi all!

 

My plan has always been to tie flies upfront and sell what I have.

 

This simply translates in to tying Ally’s shrimp in red, yellow and orange as well as Ally’s cascade in sizes 7-11.

 

This counteracts taking on more than I can handle and I should easily shift what I tie as these are the most popular flies in my local systems in the sizes most used in summer fishing.

 

I’ll also look into breaking down my process – I have a rough idea how I’d do so already.

 

Tidewaterfly: Marking the vice! So simple! I tried using a piece of card to hold behind the fly at different stages but I soon lost that!

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Stu

[Bruce Derington 0]

AK Best published a book on Production Fly tying, might have some good info for you. And Al and Gretchen Beatty are very active on this site and have been tying commercially for many years, Pm them and ask away.

[AK Skim 0]

I found this thread very interesting.

 

Let me first say I tie flies for enjoyment and have no interest in turning what I do for a hobby into a living, part time or full time.

 

The advise from those that do tie commerically I found their advise priceless.

 

A few years ago I bought a book on owning and running a fly shop off eBay, not that I ever want to own a shop, but I was very interested is what goes into running one. Why anyone would do it is beyond me.

 

So this thread just provided me with some very good insight.

 

Thanks.

 

PS

 

Stu, have you gone into commerical tying, if so what have you learned?

[JSzymczyk 0]

 

 

A few years ago I bought a book on owning and running a fly shop off eBay, not that I ever want to own a shop, but I was very interested is what goes into running one. Why anyone would do it is beyond me.

 

 

 

No doubt owning/operating a retail shop of any kind is difficult- NO way I would ever want to do it either. BUT part of me also thinks the authors of these books and articles see them as a way to "scare off" potential competitors. (Sorry Al). It is true a person must be willing to devote all non-sleep hours to running a business, at least until it becomes well established and sustainable. How you measure "success" is important... I want no part of retail business- that's why I give away the flies and lures (YES hardware lures too... I make the best trout and bass spinners there are ) and don't try to sell them. Although I MIGHT sell some this year to some guys at work, just to offset the cost. Brass spinner components are getting expensive as hell. OK, not SELL them (because IRS agents are trolling the fly tying boards....) but TRADE them for stuff.

[lykos33 0]

 

 

A few years ago I bought a book on owning and running a fly shop off eBay, not that I ever want to own a shop, but I was very interested is what goes into running one. Why anyone would do it is beyond me.

 

 

 

No doubt owning/operating a retail shop of any kind is difficult- NO way I would ever want to do it either. BUT part of me also thinks the authors of these books and articles see them as a way to "scare off" potential competitors. (Sorry Al). It is true a person must be willing to devote all non-sleep hours to running a business, at least until it becomes well established and sustainable. How you measure "success" is important... I want no part of retail business- that's why I give away the flies and lures (YES hardware lures too... I make the best trout and bass spinners there are ) and don't try to sell them. Although I MIGHT sell some this year to some guys at work, just to offset the cost. Brass spinner components are getting expensive as hell. OK, not SELL them (because IRS agents are trolling the fly tying boards....) but TRADE them for stuff.

 

 

:lol: ROFLMBBO!!!! :lol: I.R.S. agents on boards... ...

[sandflyx 0]

No doubt owning/operating a retail shop of any kind is difficult

 

It sure is and tying commercial is a pain too..

If you enjoy your hobby stick to it, if you are looking to make some money then you had better be willing to get all the tax stuff and business licenses so you can buy wholesale. Trust me I have a shop. Its tough especially during season. just remember that when the shop calls during a good season and wants flies and you want to go fishing. feel free to call me if you want to on details of tying commercially..

[flyfishing99 0]

No doubt owning/operating a retail shop of any kind is difficult

 

It sure is and tying commercial is a pain too..

If you enjoy your hobby stick to it, if you are looking to make some money then you had better be willing to get all the tax stuff and business licenses so you can buy wholesale. Trust me I have a shop. Its tough especially during season. just remember that when the shop calls during a good season and wants flies and you want to go fishing. feel free to call me if you want to on details of tying commercially..

 

 

I used to tie a limited number of patterns for a fly shop. I didn't mind doing it, but I can tell you that you really don't make much from it. You could make a lot more taking a part-time job somewhere.

The only real advantage is that I was allowed to buy stuff at the shop at wholesale. So, I never really had any money from it as I spent my earnings at the shop............................

 

Best of luck to you though!!!!!!!!!

[Silver Doctor 0]

I tied commercially through the mid sixties and seventies for 4 shops and a few other private individuals. The patterns are called "classics" today with a mixture of dry flies, wet flies and streamers. Things started to change a few years ago. Although the price of equipment like rods and reels etc. soared flies stayed the same. Materials especially hooks also took a jump making it more expensive to produce quality flies. Fishermen for some reason would still rather buy cheap flies. Even though it is the most critical item in their tackle. they will most often buy flies from individual that know nothing of their local waters of the bugs they are trying to represent with these patterns.

 

The advent of off shore tying introduced cheap product putting more strain on local tiers, and forcing them to compete with very cheap off shore and sometimes child labor. I'm in my 60's now and have given up on tying for local shops. There are a few tiers still eking out a living, but you don't get rich tying flies. I still have a brisk business in specialized classic patterns for a few clients but the business has changed radically over the years.

[TheCream 0]

I tied commercially through the mid sixties and seventies for 4 shops and a few other private individuals. The patterns are called "classics" today with a mixture of dry flies, wet flies and streamers. Things started to change a few years ago. Although the price of equipment like rods and reels etc. soared flies stayed the same. Materials especially hooks also took a jump making it more expensive to produce quality flies. Fishermen for some reason would still rather buy cheap flies. Even though it is the most critical item in their tackle. they will most often buy flies from individual that know nothing of their local waters of the bugs they are trying to represent with these patterns.

 

The advent of off shore tying introduced cheap product putting more strain on local tiers, and forcing them to compete with very cheap off shore and sometimes child labor. I'm in my 60's now and have given up on tying for local shops. There are a few tiers still eking out a living, but you don't get rich tying flies. I still have a brisk business in specialized classic patterns for a few clients but the business has changed radically over the years.

 

I would say the main reason some fly fisherman, including myself at times, choose that alternative is because the trout in the stream can't tell the difference in the fly that was $0.75 and the fly that was $1.50. And if you're stuffing a fly box with flies you didn't tie yourself, that can add up in a hurry. I tie the vast majority of what I use, but still order some flies online as opposed to from a tier I know because it makes better fiscal sense for me...which is also the primary reason why I tie my own flies the other 95% of the time...so it fits the same logic in my opinion. The old addage "good things are not cheap and cheap things are not good" isn't always accurate. Some patterns I simply choose not to tie and the option of paying for a "good enough" version outweighs both me tying them and paying too much for them.

 

I applaud anyone who wants to try to make some $$$ off tying, as mentioned above by a previous poster, I tend to give most of my flies away that I don't use myself. The second that my hobby feels too much like a job is when that critical, invisible line has been crossed, and I want no part of even coming close to it!

[tidewaterfly 0]

I would say the main reason some fly fisherman, including myself at times, choose that alternative is because the trout in the stream can't tell the difference in the fly that was $0.75 and the fly that was $1.50. And if you're stuffing a fly box with flies you didn't tie yourself, that can add up in a hurry. I tie the vast majority of what I use, but still order some flies online as opposed to from a tier I know because it makes better fiscal sense for me...which is also the primary reason why I tie my own flies the other 95% of the time...so it fits the same logic in my opinion. The old addage "good things are not cheap and cheap things are not good" isn't always accurate. Some patterns I simply choose not to tie and the option of paying for a "good enough" version outweighs both me tying them and paying too much for them.

 

The unfortunate thing is, many of the offshore flies are now as well tied as domestic flies, particularly trout flies. Used to be a domestic fly was better tied & would outlast an import, so it was a better value, but that is not always the case these days. In the past few years, even though I tie most of my own, I've purchased some domestic & some imported flies. Some of the domestic flies were not all that great, and the imports were much better than I expected.

 

Unless you tie a very unique type of fly, something that the offshore producers don't do, it would be difficult to justify a higher priced fly simply on the basis of it being domestically tied. I know domestic labor costs may be higher, but the fact is the buyer rarely cares!

[JSzymczyk 0]

The posts above show why I tie all my own stuff. I don't have the opportunity to travel all over the place and be in a situation where I might NEED some pattern I don't have on me. If I ever have enough money to do that, I'll have enough time to be prepared by tying up what I need in plenty of time in advance. I have been fly fishing for over 3 decades, and I honestly do not believe I have ever bought a "commercially tied" fly. It's a sad reality that the vast majority of people don't care if something is made here in the USA or in Jerkistan by child slave labor. It's also very true that the fish don't give a crap if a fly was tied by me with loving care and the best materials and I have $5 in time and materials invested or if I bought it for 75 cents on ebay. I care, but the fish don't. If I could buy everything I need made domestically, I would. That's just not the way the world works nowadays though.