Tying in Lead

[FredS 0]

When tying in round lead, do you:

 

1. Lay down a base of thread first?

 

2. Tie in the lead under the shank then wrap it to provide a sort of keel under the shank to keep the fly upright (as shown in this Cammiss video)?

[rockworm 0]

When tying in round lead, do you:

 

1. Lay down a base of thread first?

 

2. Tie in the lead under the shank then wrap it to provide a sort of keel under the shank to keep the fly upright (as shown in this Cammiss video)?

 

I usually lay down a thread base. But I don't think its all that necessary- especially if you overwrap well and apply a good, penetrating coat of cement. And yes you can use the lead underbody to make sure the fly rides hook up or hook down, as you desire.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Fred, I've done it both ways, but for the most part, I wrap lead wire prior to tying anything, then wrap the thread over it which locks it down where I want it. For consistent weight, I'll cut my lead to the same length, depending on the size wire, hook size & how heavy I want them to be. For example, if I'm tying large nymphs, on a 2X long size 4 hook, ( my flies are primarily bass flies) I may cut 4 inches of .030 size wire, then once the wire is cut, I'll wrap all the hooks. I'll then usually give them all a quick coat of cement, that helps keep the lead from oxidizing under the dressing. I've kept flies tied this way, and even semi tied hooks, for many, many years without any issues.

 

I actually made a jig from a couple of pieces of 1X scrap wood, with marks on it every 1/2 inch, up to 6 inches. I lay the wire out & cut it with an old utility knife blade, one that has lost some of it's sharpness so it's not good for cutting other things. I can cut a couple of dozen pieces in a few minutes, enough to tie as many flies as I may wish at one time.

 

When I was tying commercially, I would cut lengths of lead when I had some spare time & store them in old pill bottles, each marked with size & length. Back then I kept records of how much I used on each type & size fly, but since I just tie for myself now, I don't always follow my records.

 

I started doing this to speed up my tying process, and just kept doing it.

[flytire 0]

i stick one end of the lead wire in the eye of the hook and just start wrapping toward the bend stopping at a point the suits the fly i'm tying. trim off the excess. done. i will then tie in my thread and over wrap the lead.

[flyfishing99 0]

i stick one end of the lead wire in the eye of the hook and just start wrapping toward the bend stopping at a point the suits the fly i'm tying. trim off the excess. done. i will then tie in my thread and over wrap the lead.

 

 

We're talking lead substitutes, aren't we?

I always put the weight on the bare hook and then thoroughly overwrap with tying thread.

[flytire 0]

We're talking lead substitutes, aren't we?

 

you might be but i'm not!

 

i dont think this thread is about substitutes

 

my reply would have been the same for that too!

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

My approach to adding weight to a fly usually involves lead eyes (and I keep them on hand in almost every size by the 1000...). When I am using lead wire I stay away from round lead wire and only use .040 square lead wire. In use I take a pair of nippers and cut the wire in the exact same lengths (from 1/2" and smaller) using four strands of wire at a time for speed and uniformity. The square lead allows me to tie it in as a keel (and if more than one piece is needed, they're stacked on top of the original piece, but in smaller lengths so the lead pieces form what looks like a tapered keel). When I started using lead I got in the habit of covering it with thread, then coating it with Sally Hansen Hard as Nails clear lacquer. Don't know if that's really necessary but the literature availble thirty or more years ago said that the lead might color or stain body materials tied over it if I didn't.... As a saltwater tyer and someone that ties commercially I'm always looking for production techniques that are faster and as uniform as possible. The aim along with doing things quickly is to be able to re-produce a pattern accurately over the years, so what a customer ordered five years ago will be the exact same thing they get today... By the way I can't remember seeing anyone offering square lead wire in years now. I'm still operating with the same spool I got some years ago... The only time I use wire lead is for a few bonefish patterns and I usually cut it on the bias so each end is cut at a 45 degree angle (helps to quickly tie a smooth underbody if the ends of the wire I'm using are tapered before the tying process). In recent years I've gotten fewer and fewer requests for patterns with weighted bodies so the lead wire isn't used very often at all for me.

 

One other small point for freshwater types... I know that lead is a problem in freshwater environments, it's not a problem at all in the salt since it doesn't degrade in salt and birds don't feed in that environment like they do in freshwater marshes, and other areas. That hasn't stopped zealots from trying to ban lead in the salt (they've been defeated twice now that I know of after lengthy court battles).

 

Tight Lines

Bob LeMay

[Phish 0]

I use a pair hackle pliers and hold one end toward the back end of hook and wrap the lead up the shank with my index finger inside the hackle pliers. Add a good coat of SHAasN over the lead wrap and set it on the foam block to dry and start over for the next one. I make batches at a time since it easier to do this all at once. Once I am dry I wrap thread over the lead to start adding materials for whatever you are tying for.

[flyfishing99 0]

We're talking lead substitutes, aren't we?

 

you might be but i'm not!

 

i dont think this thread is about substitutes

 

my reply would have been the same for that too!

 

 

 

Thing is, lead is bad for the fisheries. In many rivers, it is banned. There are fine lead-free substitutes available.

 

From an internet report:

 

"lead tackle also poses a potential toxicological threat. Lead (Pb) is a nonessential heavy metal with no known functional or beneficial role in biological systems. Although lead is relatively stable, under some environmental conditions (e.g., soft acidic water, acidic soil), lead objects can weather and the element can mobilize, spreading the toxic properties. However, the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds"

 

 

[FredS 0]

Thing is, lead is bad for the fisheries. In many rivers, it is banned. There are fine lead-free substitutes available.From an internet report: "lead tackle also poses a potential toxicological threat. Lead (Pb) is a nonessential heavy metal with no known functional or beneficial role in biological systems. Although lead is relatively stable, under some environmental conditions (e.g., soft acidic water, acidic soil), lead objects can weather and the element can mobilize, spreading the toxic properties. However, the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds"

 

OK, this may be a bad start to this forum on my part, but here we go. . .

I appreciate the concern for the environment and the critters we share it with. I really do. But in this case, let us consider what the quoted article states, namely that "the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds." To which I respond, uhm if a bird or other animal ingests a fly deposited in the waterside trees and bushes, he's going to have a bigger problem than eventual lead poisoning. A hook in the gut will do him in before the lead will.

 

Thanks to all for the tips on using lead and lead substitutes. I'm glad to see there is a consensus on how to do it

[flyfishing99 0]

Thing is, lead is bad for the fisheries. In many rivers, it is banned. There are fine lead-free substitutes available.From an internet report: "lead tackle also poses a potential toxicological threat. Lead (Pb) is a nonessential heavy metal with no known functional or beneficial role in biological systems. Although lead is relatively stable, under some environmental conditions (e.g., soft acidic water, acidic soil), lead objects can weather and the element can mobilize, spreading the toxic properties. However, the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds"

 

OK, this may be a bad start to this forum on my part, but here we go. . .

I appreciate the concern for the environment and the critters we share it with. I really do. But in this case, let us consider what the quoted article states, namely that "the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds." To which I respond, uhm if a bird or other animal ingests a fly deposited in the waterside trees and bushes, he's going to have a bigger problem than eventual lead poisoning. A hook in the gut will do him in before the lead will.

 

Thanks to all for the tips on using lead and lead substitutes. I'm glad to see there is a consensus on how to do it

 

 

That was just one quote I found. A number of states are considering, or have passed, laws banning lead from fishing tackle. This reminds me of "catch and release" about 15 years ago. It was not well accepted by all at the time. I think most fly fishermen have adopted catch and release now - except, perhaps, in stocked streams with adequate hatchery production. Personally, I don't use lead anymore and don't keep fish.

I don't think any of us want a bunch of lead on the bottom of our streams (I think most lead gets lost on logs/rocks underwater in the stream).

[deeky 0]

 

OK, this may be a bad start to this forum on my part, but here we go. . .

I appreciate the concern for the environment and the critters we share it with. I really do. But in this case, let us consider what the quoted article states, namely that "the TWS/AFS technical review concludes that the greatest hazard arises from direct ingestion of lead ammunition and fishing tackle by wildlife, particularly birds." To which I respond, uhm if a bird or other animal ingests a fly deposited in the waterside trees and bushes, he's going to have a bigger problem than eventual lead poisoning. A hook in the gut will do him in before the lead will.

 

Thanks to all for the tips on using lead and lead substitutes. I'm glad to see there is a consensus on how to do it

 

 

Simply for the sake of discussion, there has been considerable discussion here in the past over particularly fish consuming hooks that are lost, swallowed, or broken off. If I recall, someone had actually found a fish that was in the process of passing a hook through its vent. Then there is the arguement that either the water or stomach acid dissolve the hooks. Either way, the hook is by no means a guarantee of fish mortality. But like the hook, the lead is broken down and absorbed into the fish for the next person that does catch the fish and decides to consume the fish themselves (along with the lead).

 

So as not to entirely hijack the thread, I do lay a base wrap for my wire. Then I wrap the lead over the thread and flatten the ends of the wire to make it easier to overwrap with thread. I like to put a good thread wrap over the top of the wire so that wraps of materials don't fall in between the wraps of lead.

 

Deeky

[JSzymczyk 0]

wrap it on, position as you wish, cover with a few or a lot of wraps of thread give it a coat of head cement or CA glue.

 

Lead does not dissolve in water the way sugar does, for example. Many places are "banning" lead with no direct evidence that is having any effect on that particular fishery, or any downstream fishery AT ALL. It is just a "feel good" measure by the tree huggers. Just like in several areas, and the entire state of Kalifornia if I am correct, have banned lead projectiles in any ammunition. First it was just in the "condor zone" even though there was no direct evidence that a single condor had been affected by eating an animal that had been shot with a lead bullet and not recovered by the shooter.

 

It is industrial lead and heavy metals that need to be worried about. The amount of lead lost into waterways by fishermen is nothing compared to industrial waste, and that is getting better every day too, here in the USA. Want to worry about lead? Go to China and Russia.

[FlyFishFlo 0]

I also just wrap as much lead as I want on the hookshank, then covering the lead with thread.

Works well for me, i never had any trouble with this technique.

[Phish 0]

wrap it on, position as you wish, cover with a few or a lot of wraps of thread give it a coat of head cement or CA glue.

 

Lead does not dissolve in water the way sugar does, for example. Many places are "banning" lead with no direct evidence that is having any effect on that particular fishery, or any downstream fishery AT ALL. It is just a "feel good" measure by the tree huggers. Just like in several areas, and the entire state of Kalifornia if I am correct, have banned lead projectiles in any ammunition. First it was just in the "condor zone" even though there was no direct evidence that a single condor had been affected by eating an animal that had been shot with a lead bullet and not recovered by the shooter.

 

It is industrial lead and heavy metals that need to be worried about. The amount of lead lost into waterways by fishermen is nothing compared to industrial waste, and that is getting better every day too, here in the USA. Want to worry about lead? Go to China and Russia.

I will second J's posting on this touchy subject! I will also add that this is what really happens with lead wrapped flies and lures and such. There is no way fly fisherperson could drop or hang as much lead that is exposed compared sitting on their butts/bucket fisherperson!! With that said this whole conversation is pointless and mute. While we all do lose lead weighted flies to trees and rocks and brush but a majority will just fall to the bottom. Everytime it floods then a flurry of mud and/or sediment(due not using BMP coming to logging for money or constructions of dirty riches resorts) comes flying covering all of our lost flies on the bottom to only covered up permentantly unless something of Armmegeon proportions is to occur. LOL