"Let the Fish Critique Your Fly"

[Crackaig 0]

Sorry, but I'm getting thoroughly sick and tired of seeing this, in all its various guises.

 

Fish have one means of testing anything they encounter in the water that might be food. They bite it. If it isn't food they usually spit it out again. We have no way of knowing if this is what caused a fish to take our flies. I've seen fish take twigs, catkins, stones, bits of leaf, even cigarette buts and other bits of detritus floating down a river.

 

Sometimes the fish will selectively key into one thing. Sometimes to such an extent that nothing will tempt them. Those times are, in comparison to the times they will explore anything, not common.

 

When someone posts a fly here, and asks for help, they are asking us. Yes you can tie a fly and go put it in front of a few fish. That is not what they have done, they have asked us. Being told "Let the fish decide" is not very informative. In fact it is unhelpful.

 

Fly fishing has been around for at least 2000 years. Over those years a huge store of knowledge has been built up. We, the entire community of fly anglers, are the custodians of that knowledge. It is our responsibility to try to add to it, and pass it on. When a beginner asks a question to say "See what the fish think" is to deny them this accumulated knowledge. Compare it to training a surgeon. "No, no, don't study what has worked in the past; just hack away and see if it works." Would you want to go under that surgeon's knife? This isn't how we go about helping anyone in any other form of activity. Why not? Perhaps, because it is not helpful.

 

To offer the advice, "Let the fish critique your fly", is to deny the inquirer access to this accumulated knowledge, and tell them to start again from the very beginning of all fly fishing. We wouldn't dream of doing that in any other field, why do people trot the phrase out so much here?

 

Please, please, please, stop it. Not only is it unhelpful to the inquirer, it is demeaning to those of us who genuinely try to offer help. Neither does it encourage the beginner to ask again. You don't go back after having your request for help refused previously.

 

Rant over... For now.

 

Cheers,

C.

[mikechell 0]

No, really, C. ... tell us what you really think !

 

LOL I totally agree with your rant.

[artimus001 0]

well said.

[Fisherboy0301 0]

i agree.

[WVUontheFLY 0]

But at the same time we could think a fly looks spectacular and then it turns out to be a stinker. I have had a few flies that I have tied that turned out awesome and never consistantly caught fish and have since been retired from my tying rotation. I have a couple dozen patterns I need to test to see how they swim and how the fish respond before I make changes to them or kick them to the wayside. So we can offer advice on how it looks for proportions and the like, but we can't tell how it will fair in the water or fishes' eye.

 

But I am not trying to defend the sole response of "fish and see", or "that fly will fish." I would personally rather have a more in depth critique and get the fly torn down than have one of the afore mentioned responses.

[mikechell 0]

There are also these facts of life:

(1) Many times, posters are "fishing" for compliments, and don't really want to hear criticism.

 

(2) Many reply-ers don't know enough to properly critique a fly, so they reply with the tag line under discussion.

 

(3) Some people have been brought up that, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything". Or, conversely, the fly is near perfect, and there is no critique necessary. In both cases, the tag line is just a "footnote" to say they looked at it.

 

(4) Sometimes it's just a lazy response ... "Yeah, it's a fly you tied and I don't care enough to truly tell you what I think ... yawn."

 

(5) Sometimes people (like Crackaig) sit down on a burr ... and have to rant until they can get it out of their ... crack !!!

 

(6) Sometimes I sit around in a hotel, or an empty classroom, and have way too much time on my hands.

[utyer 0]

Crackaig, a good, and I thing deserved rant. Yes the fish are the final judge, but for many, fishing time may be limited, and for some, it might be a long time before their new creation will be tested where it counts. For new tiers especially, productive critique and help will maximize their ability to improve their tying, and shorten the learning curve.

 

As one who spent several years (OK decades,) tying before the Internet, I was constantly seeking critical analysis of my attempts. I was lucky in that I was working on the water, and got to fish every day. Fish were my constant critics often laughing at my first flies. The fish will either accept or reject. They will never tell you why. Figuring out why a pattern did or didn't work is the whole point if tying your own flies after all.

 

Countless people write books, articles, and blogs devoted to telling others how to tie, its obvious (at least to me,) that sharing what lessons we have learned along the way is an extension of the process.

 

After more than a half century of fly fishing, and tying, I can tell you that I got plenty of help along the way from many other tiers and anglers. For many years, I tied commercially for shops, and custom flies for individual clients, and they usually wanted a pattern that was not available elsewhere. Sometimes it took a few tries to get the pattern just the way the client wanted them, and that in itself was a helpful learning experience. Success was usually rewarded with repeat business, and referrals.

 

Today, I consider myself still an intermediate tier, since there are many types of flies I don't tie often or at all, expert level in my view is still a goal to be achieved. Since I am still learning, I have no problem in helping others in doing the same. I take critiques both good and bad for what they are meant to be, and hopefully the critiques I offer are taken in the constructive way I mean them to be.

[FlaFly 0]

I'd like to humbly suggest a tiny rebuttal/amendment to Crack... It's true a fish will tentatively check out something it isn't familiar with, like a cigarette butt, however if the water is full of real food items (say, midges), and the fish has been actually feeding on them, it stands to reason that he/she is more likely to bite an object that looks like that food item. Long-time fisherpersons should be able to say whether, and to what extent, a fly resembles a given food item. Crack's suggestion that fish test unknown objects seems to be saying whatever you throw out there will catch fish. Let's all start tying flies that look like cigarette butts.

[jonathan creason 0]

As a newbie I will say that I welcome criticism and critiques. I have tying classes near me, but don't have the time or money now to sit down with someone and learn firsthand so the feedback I get from places like this are my best opportunities to learn.

 

I can see why many folks use that response, though. Often times the written word doesn't come across like intended, and often times people have skin that is far too thin to handle anyone critiques. I'm sure after a while it gets easier to just say that than deal with an e-meltdown.

[JasonV 0]

I am also new and every time I saw that response I thought " if that is the response I will get on this site, I might as well just skip the time required to ask for criticism and go fishing." I assumed a site for fly tying would focus more on that than the fishing aspect.

[mikechell 0]

Sometimes the fish will selectively key into one thing. Sometimes to such an extent that nothing will tempt them. Those times are, in comparison to the times they will explore anything, not common.

 

Cheers,

C.

FlaFly ... I think you missed this part of C.'s rant. I've not fish for trout enough to see one of those selective feeding times.

 

Let's all start tying flies that look like cigarette butts.

There are several cigarette butt patterns out there. LOL You might be surprised at just how many fish you catch on one.

[Crackaig 0]

WVUontheFLY I had exactly that problem just last summer with a fly I was tying for a shop. The shop owner showed me a video of what he was after. It was intended as an instructional video. Following the video using the materials suggested would not produce a floating fly. It took a lot of work involving a complete rethink of the tying technique and a change of material to get it right. The result is my Soldier Beetle. The whole experience cost me a lot of time and effort. However none of that time was actually fishing. You can equally well see how a fly floats in a bucket of water.

 

FlaFly, While I was writing Mike beat me to it. In the 1960s or 70s (as I no longer have my books I can't look it up) Dick Walker published a pattern called the Filtip. It was a Consulate cigarette but on a long shank hook varnished. Dick Walker never published a fly pattern unless it had caught at least 50 fish. I mention it to try to get across the point of how prevalent this behaviour is. I honestly think it is prevalent enough to convince us we are onto something.

 

To spend an hour or more studying a photo of a fly and trying to offer constructive advice then have someone post immediately after "just let the fish decide", makes me wonder why I bother. If this was so easy that doing that will reveal all, I must have seriously missed something. In my entire career I can only cite two things I have learned about fly tying entirely from observation on the water. Yet many hundreds of times someone has said, "Try this..." and the light has dawned.

 

Jason, that is exactly how I would feel in your position. Fortunately for me, I wasn't. Best of all I had an instructor who told me he didn't know when my questions out paced his knowledge. Then we sought answers together. If I am able to help I will. If you don't want to put a picture up on the forum use the PM system.

 

Cheers,

C.

[Bob Sc 0]

I agree. The flies I tie have to pass my test first before I fish them. I decide first, then the fish get to see the fly only after I like it.

[mikechell 0]

I agree. The flies I tie have to pass my test first before I fish them. I decide first, then the fish get to see the fly only after I like it.

I agree with this. I usually float mine in the bath tub ... then I dunk my head and look at them. If I just can't help myself, then it's a keeper. After getting the fly surgically removed from my mouth or throat, I'll tie up a bunch of those.

Fortunately, I've only had one fly pass that test.

So, now, I let the fish decide.

 

I am joking C. Just joking !!!!

[Kimo 0]

 

I agree with this. I usually float mine in the bath tub ... then I dunk my head and look at them. If I just can't help myself, then it's a keeper. After getting the fly surgically removed from my mouth or throat, I'll tie up a bunch of those.

Fortunately, I've only had one fly pass that test.

So, now, I let the fish decide.

 

I am joking C. Just joking !!!!

 

Mike,

Would you please provide a video of this?

I for one would find this very educational.

 

Kimo