Cold 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2016 I use to hunt during a time in my life where I needed to if I wanted meat. My life is much better now and I, along with 90% of the population, no longer need to hunt for my food. I stopped hunting, that's respect. Ah I see. So true respect is centuries of breeding a species to the point that it would go extinct without human husbandry, then raising them by the millions in awful conditions while placing an unsustainable burden on the environment, then automating their slaughter and butchering, so that you don't have to put yourself out by actually taking part in that process any more than just stopping at the supermarket on the way home and pulling a package off a cooler shelf? Because hey, if you don't personally see it happening, it must not exist! Ethical hunters show the animals they kill far more respect than the person who thinks all meat just leaps into existence on a styrofoam tray wrapped in cellophane in a cooler at the store. To say that the person who chooses not to hunt because they can get their meat while letting someone else do the dirty work...that somehow pretending that the commercial meat farming industry *is* respectful to the animals...just shows how much some are willing to bury their head in the sand and cling to a false sense of superiority. If that's your idea of respect, I hope nobody I meet ever holds those same standards of respect. I don't fault anyone for *not* hunting...it's certainly not for everyone, and I can respect that. But for a person in that situation to assume some sort of a moral high ground over someone who does hunt...when they're contentedly either not consuming any meat...or letting someone else do the dirty work...or contentedly gulping down a cow that never ate a blade of grass in its life...it's so ridiculous that it's actually kind of funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Saarinen 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2016 Mike! Goat pushing kebab eaters have the higest number of offspring, so they must be the lowest on the food chain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2016 No matter what we feel about other peoples on this planet, lets keep it off the site, Adam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djtrout 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2016 Personal attacks are inappropriate for this site, folks. Could we take a step back and give it a rest? I know the political debates are inspiring, but ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poopdeck 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 I don't feel as if I was personally attacked. I hope nobody feels I led a personnel attack. My apologies if this occurred. Respect has nothing to do with it. Fish and animals don't even know what respect is. Ethical is a much better term. I like to fish. I don't have any problems with sticking a hook in their lip. I do my best not to otherwise harm the fish but i realize i am, to some degree, harming that fish for my enjoyment. Kissing the fish, saying a prayer to the fish gods while peering longfully into its eyes is nothing more than contrived respect. Its not as if something becomes respectful just because one talks about respect while doing it. If I believed so strongly that I had to show fish respect I would not fish at all. I do not know how I became an anti hunter simply because I stopped hunting. I support the right to hunt or the right not to hunt with equel vigor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josephcsylvia 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 Poopdeck, I could be wrong but I think their comments were directed to Adam, not yourself. nothing wrong with choosing not to hunt, my only problem is with p.e.t.a and not even in general because I also respect thier right to opinion. I have a problem when two women from their organization put on fur coats and walk throught the woods in deer season hoping to get shot"at" to get it closed down. I asked them if they were crazy then called the game warden because they were not wearing 500square in of orange! In the end they only accomplished getting themself a citation!! Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 I don't feel as if I was personally attacked. I hope nobody feels I led a personnel attack. My apologies if this occurred. Respect has nothing to do with it. Fish and animals don't even know what respect is. Ethical is a much better term. I like to fish. I don't have any problems with sticking a hook in their lip. I do my best not to otherwise harm the fish but i realize i am, to some degree, harming that fish for my enjoyment. Kissing the fish, saying a prayer to the fish gods while peering longfully into its eyes is nothing more than contrived respect. Its not as if something becomes respectful just because one talks about respect while doing it. If I believed so strongly that I had to show fish respect I would not fish at all. I do not know how I became an anti hunter simply because I stopped hunting. I support the right to hunt or the right not to hunt with equel vigor. I don't think you attacked anyone, nor did anyone attack you ... but you are arguing semantics with more semantics. You say, "Fish and animals don't even know what respect is." Well, they don't know what "ethical" is either. ANYTHING in words is unknown to a fish. ANYTHING we "think", is unknown to them. Using the term respect in referring to how you treat a fish is every bit as accurate and the term ethical. Dictionary ... respect = "... a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements." Dictionary ... ethical = "... following accepted rules of behavior : morally right and good ... " It doesn't have anything to do with what the "receiver" of said respect feels or thinks ... it's all in the giver. If you really want to treat a fish ETHICALLY, you wouldn't fish. If you want to show a fish respect, HAUL that critter to the net and take a picture, or eat it. I respect the taste of a well battered Bluegill Fillet ... I can tell you that ... and I don't care what the fillet thinks about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave G. 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 Respect has nothing to do with it. Fish and animals don't even know what respect is. Ethical is a much better term. Ok so call it ethical then. Who cares what you call it. We each have our own ways of doing things. Ethical is perfect "For You". But it's not perfect for me because I see it totally as respect. It has absolutely nothing to do with the critter , wildlife or fish knowing or recognizing it or them being capable of recognizing it or not.. Here is the point,, I Do ! I need to recognize it, me Dave G. And in my circumstance it may be Only me who needs to. What you think ( in terms of my definitions) means nothing, it's not your reality. And Guess what ? I like to fish too, welcome to the club! Seriously, I mean there seems to be a bunch of us around here who like to fish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josephcsylvia 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 Seriously, I mean there seems to be a bunch of us around here who like to fish. Wait a minute Dave, im not the only one who fishes around here? Lol Honestly I can say that I assume anyone with a fly rod in there hand wants to keep the fish as health as possible unless there eating it. Thats a safe assumption I imagine because there are alot of other ways to torture fish if thats what your after. Just look at the guys on the flw tour who set the hook on a bass so hard it flies out of the water and almost into yhe camera crews boat! While We may have our own words for how we treat the sport we all here approach it very similarly. Anyway guys a little (probably barbless or microbarb) hook isnt even going to ruin the fishes day to say he doesnt feel it is asinine lol but there's no way to guage just how much all I know is they go right back to what they were doing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene L 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 I've never yet caught a fish that wasn't trying to kill something else and eat it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave G. 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2016 I like barbless hooks but I like pinched barbs even better . That little bump that is left offers just a touch of grab which is evident when you slide the hook out . It takes just a little more push than barbless. On a salmon that may go airborne my wild imagination sees that little grab as something that might matter. Besides I have a tying box full of mostly barbed hooks LOL ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Maybe I should go barble ... barbles ... bar ... Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... I can't even type it out !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josephcsylvia 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Maybe I should go barble ... barbles ... bar ... Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... I can't even type it out !!! Lol well when you have to un hook as many fish as I do the barb becomes a pain in the but lmao! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poopdeck 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Respect has nothing to do with it. Fish and animals don't even know what respect is. Ethical is a much better term. Ok so call it ethical then. Who cares what you call it. We each have our own ways of doing things. Ethical is perfect "For You". But it's not perfect for me because I see it totally as respect. It has absolutely nothing to do with the critter , wildlife or fish knowing or recognizing it or them being capable of recognizing it or not.. Here is the point,, I Do ! I need to recognize it, me Dave G. And in my circumstance it may be Only me who needs to. What you think ( in terms of my definitions) means nothing, it's not your reality. And Guess what ? I like to fish too, welcome to the club! Seriously, I mean there seems to be a bunch of us around here who like to fish.you just 110% proved my point. You whisper in fish ears to make YOU feel better. I never said there was anything wrong with that either. All I'm saying is if I (I, meaning me not you or anybody else) felt I had to say thanks or apologize to a fish to make me feel better about sticking a sharp object into its mouth I (me and only me) would show respect TO THE FISH by not doing it. I don't wish anybody o do as I do but it is what I would do. Sorry if I angered you. Is it spring yet? Mikechell I was not talking about the fish knowing what ethical is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
