Lefty's Deceiver - Best saltwater fly pattern?

[FKROW 0]

I once asked Bob Clouser why his shop tied Clouser Minnows all had red colored eyes.

The most popular eyes in my local fly shops were white or yellow painted.

 

He explained that one some days the smallmouth did not like white,, on other days they did not like yellow.

The smallmouth always ate the red eyed flies.

 

Now this is for the Susquehanna fishing area that he and Bobby Jr ran their business.

When in other waters or salt water, other eye colors were used.

 

Does that mean it is not a "Authentic Clouser Minnow" if it does not have red eyes?

 

 

In addition, Bob designed several variations,,, on of my favorites is the Foxy Minnow with Artic Fox Tail instead of buck tail.

Excellent fly for smaller sized patterns for warm water ponds and trout streams. This pattern is no longer sold on his shop site.

Interesting that the fly was developed long prior to the west coast steelhead tiers popularizing Artic Fox Tail.

 

The "Half and Half" for longer flies,,, I have great results with Northern Pike in red/white or chartreuse/white.

 

Clouser's E-Z Popper has accounted for many largemouth and smallmouth, I add on rubber legs and Estaz behind the body,,, most definitely a variation.

I gave some to a friend and he told me his young son counted 103 largemouth on the one fly before it was broken off and lost.

 

Regards,

FK

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

Just checked out the Half & Half. I guess I should have guessed what it would look like. I saw one version in Fire Tiger that I might twist up for pike because I have very good success locally with that color. I might even go as far as to tie an articulated version, but now I'm just talking crazy.

[McFlyLures 0]

I once asked Bob Clouser why his shop tied Clouser Minnows all had red colored eyes.

The most popular eyes in my local fly shops were white or yellow painted.

 

He explained that one some days the smallmouth did not like white,, on other days they did not like yellow.

The smallmouth always ate the red eyed flies.

 

Now this is for the Susquehanna fishing area that he and Bobby Jr ran their business.

When in other waters or salt water, other eye colors were used.

 

Does that mean it is not a "Authentic Clouser Minnow" if it does not have red eyes?

 

 

In addition, Bob designed several variations,,, on of my favorites is the Foxy Minnow with Artic Fox Tail instead of buck tail.

Excellent fly for smaller sized patterns for warm water ponds and trout streams. This pattern is no longer sold on his shop site.

Interesting that the fly was developed long prior to the west coast steelhead tiers popularizing Artic Fox Tail.

 

The "Half and Half" for longer flies,,, I have great results with Northern Pike in red/white or chartreuse/white.

 

Clouser's E-Z Popper has accounted for many largemouth and smallmouth, I add on rubber legs and Estaz behind the body,,, most definitely a variation.

I gave some to a friend and he told me his young son counted 103 largemouth on the one fly before it was broken off and lost.

 

Regards,

FK

Here is the problem though when a fly starts requiring "specific materials" Red lead eyes can get expensive, any colored eyes can be. To say that Im not tying a clouser because its got simple lead eyes (cheaper) is kinda um.... snooty. I mean, it seems to me this is starting to sound like a way for manufacturers to say (you can only use our product). You know? Just my 2 cents, and as we all know its barely even worth that, so take it with a grain of salt. Just my own idea and thought. Anyone else think this?

[McFlyLures 0]

In older videos Lefty explains why his version of the Clouser is different than one tied by Bob.

 

Lefty ties a rather sparce wing,, often with top wing only,, this is for clear flats saltwater.

 

Bob ties his with heavier dressing, mainly for big river smallmouth fishing, this is his livelyhood.

 

The Clouser Deep Minnow was actually created by Lefty,,, Bob was a friend with young family who had just lost his job and was struggling to start a guiding business. Lefty wrote an article Fly Fisherman magazine giving Bob credit and named the fly,,, the rest is history.

Class act.

 

I have a collection of Clouser Minnows and other flies tied by Bob, they also have subtle and specific design features. Several videos are available on the web with Bob detailing the fly construction.

 

Having fished with Bob and Bobby JR,,,. dining with his family in their kitchen, I tend to respect the fly design evolution and the variations developed by the Clouser family over the years.

 

Slap on some barbell eyes and excessive deer hair with 30x the numer of thread wraps, is it a correctly tied Clouser,,,, you decide,,,, IT IS YOUR HOOK AND MATERIALS.

 

If someone posts a video with a poorly tied Clouser, yes it will catch fish,, and the fly shops have tons of crappy imports just like yours,,, expect some comments.

 

Regards,

FK

Awwww, sorry you think the fly is crappy. Well, the fish don't think so and thats what counts to me.

 

All this after I said sorry and changed my comments and changed the video description? Kinda unwarranted I think. But oh well.

[FKROW 0]

For me personally the color of the eyes is not very important,,, the key detail is the placement and weight of the eyes in relationship to the hook size/weight and amount of materials, sparse vs heavy, how does it swim,, does the fly swim level or dive head first or tail first,,, the action of the fly in the water is what Clouser and Lefty contributed to its long standing success.

 

Our saltwater Clousers had epoxy added to the head and over the dumb bell eyes for durability,,,, is it still a Clouser? did this change the fly balance?

 

How many fly tiers actually test the fly in a tank of water or on the river/ocean to observe how it swims at various retrieve rates or while dead drifting in a current?

 

A close friend has recently published a book featuring his patterns,,, they are tested for several years on the water and many variations have evolved prior to actually naming and publishing a video or article.

 

Regards,

FK

[FKROW 0]

McFly, did not mean to imply your fly was crappy,,,, the flies in the bins at most fly shops have rather crappy imported streamers and saltwater flies.

 

You used the analogy that fly shops had variations with the common names and were generally accepted by the average FF as correct patterns.

Probably true however, the historic background and details of construction is soon lost.

 

I really do applaud your efforts to publish videos of fly patterns with detailed instructions.

Time and energy are considerable.

 

Suggest you take comments as constructive criticism and learn from the old timers.

 

Regards,

FK

[McFlyLures 0]

For me personally the color of the eyes is not very important,,, the key detail is the placement and weight of the eyes in relationship to the hook size/weight and amount of materials, sparse vs heavy, how does it swim,, does the fly swim level or dive head first or tail first,,, the action of the fly in the water is what Clouser and Lefty contributed to its long standing success.

 

Our saltwater Clousers had epoxy added to the head and over the dumb bell eyes for durability,,,, is it still a Clouser? did this change the fly balance?

 

How many fly tiers actually test the fly in a tank of water or on the river/ocean to observe how it swims at various retrieve rates or while dead drifting in a current?

 

A close friend has recently published a book featuring his patterns,,, they are tested for several years on the water and many variations have evolved prior to actually naming and publishing a video or article.

 

Regards,

FK

I recently started showing underwater swimming footage for my streamer vids.

[McFlyLures 0]

McFly, did not mean to imply your fly was crappy,,,, the flies in the bins at most fly shops have rather crappy imported streamers and saltwater flies.

 

You used the analogy that fly shops had variations with the common names and were generally accepted by the average FF as correct patterns.

Probably true however, the historic background and details of construction is soon lost.

 

I really do applaud your efforts to publish videos of fly patterns with detailed instructions.

Time and energy are considerable.

 

Suggest you take comments as constructive criticism and learn from the old timers.

 

Regards,

FK

You said "crappy just like yours" sounded implied to my fly. But that's ok.

 

Yes, if you didn't notice, I appologised and went back to change things. I do take advice. I just usually don't always take the advice of one person I barely know from the Internet. I don't know who is an old timer here and who isn't. I dont know who has good info and who doesn't. You can understand why I don't always take the advice right away right? I get people telling me sometimes things that make no sense and I know are just opinions. So I started taking most of the advice with a grain of salt. For instance that Mike guy. One of the first comments I ever got on this forum was from him. His advice was to shave my beard because it was disgusting. And that I must have a small "you know what" because I'm over compensating with the beard. You can see why I didn't automatically trust every comment on here when they started off like that.

 

I have agreed with you now, and will try to listen (to some of you) more often.

[mikechell 0]

 

For instance that Mike guy. One of the first comments I ever got on this forum was from him. His advice was to shave my beard because it was disgusting. And that I must have a small "you know what" because I'm over compensating with the beard.

Oookkaaayyy ... I open one of your posts ... to see if I was wrong about you. Answer to that is, "nope".

 

THIS is the post I sent ...

"Honestly ... I have a problem seeing what you're doing because of the background.

I really don't like beards ... but the the beard makes for movement and coloration that is a terrible background for the fly tying.

I haven't been able to watch any of your videos because of it.

As for a picture, I like that idea (on a neutral background), because I also haven't been able to comment on any of the flies because you don't have any pictures of the finished flies. I clicked near the end of this video, and as soon as you finish the fly, you take it off the vise and put it aside ... I didn't get a good look at it then, either."

As you can see ... I made no mention of disgust, or compensation or shaving it off. You made some jokes, later ... I made some jokes and replies about my disgusting Brother-n-Law's beard.

And then you made it personal ... and I ended up blocking all your posts because I got tired of reading ... oh, never mind.

I am putting you back on the "blocked" list. You can keep telling your falsehoods about me.

[Bimini15 0]

So, I can honestly say I haven't ever tied a Clouser Minnow.

 

First, no lead for me. So I am disqualified right there. No cross wraps behind the eyes either. Also no red eyes, but mostly yellow, which I paint myself.

 

And yet, my biggest bass ever on fly fell for one of these bastards. Stupid bass...!

 

Glad to see the thread is back on friendlier terms.

[FlatsRoamer 0]

Guys, just letting you know, this is RUINING AND DESTROYING many of our experiences on this forum.

 

All of this arguing and crap kinda makes me want to not visit this site again.

 

We are all fly tiers

We all catch fish on our own flies

We all strive to improve our flies

We all fell in love with the art of fly fishing

 

 

Aren't we all supposed to be friends?

 

I don't know, maybe for some of you just winning an argument is worth ruining people's experiences with this forum.

 

Cuz this sure as hell ain't no "advice giving, friendly, generous " people that I think I knew.

 

I don't know

[FlatsRoamer 0]

I'm done with this thread bye

[muskyhunter81 0]

I agree with Flatsroamer. This is getting ridiculous.

[Bimini15 0]

...or NOT...

[TheCream 0]

McFly, I generally don't like your threads because I feel like you're motive is to solely bump up the hits to your site. Just throwing that out there. But, I 100% agree with you on the Pattern Police issue. A Corvette today looks a lot different from a Corvette from 1970. Does that mean it isn't a Corvette anymore? Advances happen, upgrades happen, new materials become available, it is what it is. There is not one thing "wrong" with a Deceiver the way Lef...Mr. Kreh originally tied them. Nothing. Does that mean that I am going to tie them the same way? Oh heck no. I like other flash materials better in the tail. I might choose a different body material. I'm putting herl or some sort of dark flash material over the back. Might even bar the body instead of having two solid colors. Not only would I add eyes, I might even add a Fish Mask. Crazy, right? If I post a fly like that tomorrow and call it a Deceiver, the Pattern Police might try to arrest me. If I post it and DON'T call it a Deceiver, inevitably someone will say "Well that's just a Deceiver." You cannot win. The way you tied the fly will absolutely catch fish and I'd call it a Deceiver. Bottom line, I don't care what a fly is called as long as a fish calls it edible.