Massachusetts

[mikechell 0]

Mass. signed into law a ban on asking prospective employees what their pay history has been ... in other words, when an applicant says they want $15.00 an hour, a company cannot ask what they made at their last job.

The basis behind this law, says the bill will, "ensure that people are paid what they are worth, based only on what they are worth."

 

I guess that means fast food workers can go back to being paid $7.50 an hour!!!

[Bimini15 0]

I heard a report the other day saying that it is becoming a new trend in many places to pay new employees based on their last job's salary, rather than the skills and preparation needed for the job.

So, if you are a kid finishing your engineering studies while working at Arby's, they will try to get away with paying your engineer work slighty over what Arby's pays.

That is an extreme case, of course, but you get the point.

[FlaFly 0]

It sounds like a reasonable idea, but it raises the question as to how many other questions are typically asked during interviews that have no bearing on one's capabilities. Also the way around this law

 

interviewer - why did you leave your last job

interviewee - I haven't left it. I'm looking for a job that pays more. etc etc

 

When I hired people, I always felt they had as much right to ask questions to find out whether they wanted to work for me, as I have to ask questions about their interests, capability, training, experience, etc.

[Poopdeck 0]

kids getting worthless liberal art college degrees should be paid slightly above Arby's pay rate.

[mikechell 0]

I've got no issue with a person getting paid what they're worth ... but I do have issues with:

1) $15.00 minimum wage for entree level jobs (like fast food counter people)

2) New hires expecting journeyman money without proving they are worth it.

3) New hires with nothing but a degree expecting full wages without experience. I don't care what you learned in school, you don't "deserve" to be paid big money without proving you can do the job! Had my fill of officers who thought there college degree and rank deserved my respect ... even though they had less sense than a recruit still in boot camp. Same goes for any job ... college degree only gets you in the door, you still have to EARN the money.

 

The law signed in Mass. is not a "bad" law ... it's just overstepping an employer's rights. They are already banned from asking WHY you left your last job ... the previous employer cannot say WHY they let you go. Asking what you got paid was a way to ascertain if you were valued by your previous employer. A way to guess if you're worth what you're asking for pay. Now that's gone as well.

 

It would be fine, if all these laws were to actually protect the employers and the employees, but they aren't. They are just government's way of "level the income inequality". The income inequality exist because some people just don't want to EARN their pay.

[Bimini15 0]

My problem with the law is that it is stupid to microlegislate the questions that can be asked in a job interview.

All you have to do is to have prospects sign a disclosure agreement by which they "volunteer" the information during the interview. Of course you don't have to sign it, but...

 

Not saying this is right, just like it is not right to automatically base new job salaries on old job salaries, but you know that in this job market employers can have their way.

 

Don't get me started with the whole experience and common sense vs brand new diploma. It is depressing to me in many levels.

 

Poopdeck,

What is with the liberal arts degree comments? Did you fail Latin in high school?

[FlaFly 0]

Right Bim.... this is the second thread in a row that has degraded into an us vs. them diatribe over college degrees. one more and I'm outa here. Next we'll be seeing political arguments.

[Bimini15 0]

Where is the other one? I missed it.

[FlaFly 0]

the survey

[mikechell 0]

Flafly ... it's not about "us vs. them" and you should realize that. You were able to get a good education and put it to use and everyone on this site and elsewhere applaud you for that. But for every one like you, I can point out 100s or even thousands who got the paper and not the actual education.

Quit taking it so personally.

It's about worthless degrees vs. actual college education. It's also about the millions of people who are making quite good livings without a college degree. A vocational degree can be more "job related" than a lot of college degrees. It's about the current "entitled population" who believe that four years in college equals millions of dollars in the work place.

 

I am a vocational level instructor. It's not political ... it's reality. On some level, you have to agree with, at least, some of my opinion.

[Bimini15 0]

The problem is the framing of it. I think we all agree that an education, any education, is, in good part, what you make of it.

I also think that not all of your education is academic. Learning is everywhere as it has been said since the Middle Ages.

So it seems pointed to single out liberal arts degrees, because there are slackers and there is wasted schooling in every profession.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

kids getting worthless liberal art college degrees should be paid slightly above Arby's pay rate.

Poopdeck, this is the second time I've seen this comment from you about liberal arts degrees being "worthless". As someone who's made a good living and contributed significantly to the betterment of my community over the last twenty years by virtue of one of those "worthless" degrees (Bachelor's in Secondary Education), I take exception to that. Do you really believe that any non-technical field of study is without any worth at all? If so, that is one seriously narrow-minded view of the world you have there. I guess you'd be okay with your kids' schoolteachers being paid $7.50 an hour, then?

I'll tell you one thing those of us with those "worthless" liberal arts degrees have learned that perhaps they didn't teach in your program: It's damned rude to take a dump on what others choose to do with their professional lives just because it differs from what you chose for yourself.

[mikechell 0]

I really did start this as a joke about the minimum wage going to $15.00 and hour. I apologize for starting up a heated debate. But if we can keep the discourse civil, it need not escalate into an argument.

 

Everyone basis their opinions on their own experiences. Different upbringing, different schools, different sets of friends and different village/town/city references are what make us all "interesting". Lets not start name calling and denigrating each other.

 

Just realize that people's opinions are of those they personally know and experience ... not the members on this site who are "exceptions", for the most part, not "rules". We are anglers and fly tiers ... which automatically puts us in a "league of our own".

 

As I've stated in other threads. I hate people. I don't hate "us" ... and most individuals on this site are part of my "us".

The individuals I consider "people" are blocked ... ... and there are only 4 of those.

[retrocarp 0]

LMAO !!!!!

Laughs from the peanut gallery !!

[Dave G. 0]

To be a retiree in the State of Ma is not so different from being an entry level hire. Many, many places automatically drop the wage to minimum or just above on a position or only offer the entry level jobs ( they are glad to get reliable people in entry level positions and seniors are generally more reliable than many of the young crowd today, and no I did not say all. There are some good young workers too).. Since the affordable care act, additionally, try and find any job full time here, I know that even where I worked before I retired they were trimming hours and hiring more part time positions since that date.. They are around but far and few between, I'm observing this real time now, as my wife decided to pick up a few hours per week just for some spending cash and probably to get out of the house away from me lol. She was not looking for full time hours anyway but the positions hiring were also not full time, with most capped at 32 hours and they would rather not work you more than 24. So this is why "probably" so many middle aged people are working 2 and 3 jobs at a time these days to make ends meet. What's my point ?

 

Just putting the info out there that here in Ma. this is a real phenomenon.. I can't imagine that this state is alone and I'm going to guess there has been a lot of head of house or otherwise seasoned adults petitioning legislature to get this wage up, since there are so many jobs now considered part time or entry level that once were not. But are they really ? Under the blanket probably some are really entry level since they always were, but it all falls under that blanket of minimum wage. For the record, I remember when $15 was main stay as a living wage LOL and making $12 per hour wishing I could make that $15 and it seems to me like it wasn't all that long ago in the big scope of things ( minimum then was under $3 an hour I believe). Now it's the $15 to be minimum. My wife went back to work at $10.50 an hour part time, 22-24 hours per week and they gave her a raise right away and put her in training as Pharmacy tech ( difference between the tech and cashier is they can fill the pill bottles for which she needs to pass a course and have 500 hours practical LOL). And she is happy with that, where she was a trained HHCA making more than double that and I'm left wondering how they pay people these days. Anyway, in this state it's turning out that companies keep a few core people full time and work them to the bone with mega hours and duties and satellite around them a bunch of part time workers in positions that were full time once, even micro managed down to seasonally now. Oh yes that is real here. So really, in our case in this state, we were better off before government decided to frig with things so to speak !! And that so often is the case. We don't need ( as has been mentioned) government engineering things . But that fact of the matter is, as they vote in their own legislation and their raises and their own powers beyond that of the people, it's what you get. And with society approaching 50% on some kind of dole we are destined to see more of it not less. This country and certainly this state, is headed to if not at the point of an unsustainable underpinning, IMO ( and I'm not alone).

 

As to higher education, obviously people need to be educated to begin to qualify for many many jobs, be that college, vocational ( I took post grad in this), personal health care and on and on etc. Not a problem, it's require and necessary. That is till they start bantering/ brandishing that education about and wearing it on their sleeve as if that in some way makes them better than the next person as a person. That I have a real problem with because it's just totally unnecessary. And universities are chock block full of it and I've seen it in work places too. " Why don't you know I have a PHD in this or this or that in that". Big whoop, go use it then and get out of my face, make good use of it too, don't flash it about in front of everyone, doing 0 good with it yet. The term to best describe that is "haughty". Oh, no, use the education and make good use of it and hooray that's wonderful !. That's all. I've known people with Doctorates that were as down to earth as the next guy or gal. I know one in particular, who came down to earth in gaining her Doctorate ! And then there are the haughty ones. Usually the more valuable one is the down to earth person, the other is too busy displaying their credentials to be effective. We all know the types, I doubt seriously they are among us here.