Overhead Casting ?

[Hatchet Jack 0]

 

"...due to their shorter length, switch rods are better suited to overhead casts. Overhead casting would normally

require a slightly lighter line (or shooting head) than used for traditional "change of direction" two-handed work..."

 

 

I've always wondered just what is meant by "overhead casting".

Seems to me, all fly casting is overhead, so what is the difference here?

 

(I do it with my switch rods, and whatever I'm doing, it seems

to do the job as on a good day, the fly is going out 70 - 85 feet.)

 

Maybe some of the experts here could elucidate?

[heavynets 0]

Overhead vs roll cast. Spey casting or two handed casting is a version or modification of a roll cast. It does not involve a back cast and is therefore not an "overhead" cast.

[SilverCreek 0]

There are three main single handed casting techniques. Two are overhead (elbow forward and elbow up and to the side) techniques and one is the low elbow (sidearm) technique of Lefty Kreh. So Lefty Kreh's technique is more sidearm rather than overhead.

 

See this article by Al Kyte on Arm Styles from the Federation of Fly Fishers instruction manual.

 

http://www.fedflyfishers.org/Portals/0/Documents/Casting/MCI/Arm%20Styles.Al%20Styles.pdf

 

[RexW 0]

Generally, the term "overhead cast" is used more often in reference to casting a 2 handed rod.

 

In an overly simplified description, the line stays in the air throughout the backcast during an overhead cast, similar to a regular style cast when using a single hand rod.

 

Traditional style 2 handed rod casting allows part of the line to touch the water during the backcast to use a water anchor to load the rod for the forward cast. This style includes switch casts, single spey, double spey, and many more casts.

[vicrider 0]

Rex, why would an "overhead cast" be used more in reference to casting a two handed rod. Most two handed casters today will tell you the switch is not nor was ever designed for overhead casting in it's present form and with the lines used for skagit, scandi or spey. All two handed rods with the lines designed for them are made to keep some of the line in the water for loading the rod for the cast, which can use the use the casts you mention. You can find any number of videos that will warn you that doing overhead casting with spey type heads is clumsy and dangerous. A shorter switch rod could be used for overhead casting with the proper line you'd use for a single handed rod. Match the rod with a DT or WF of proper grain weight for overhead casting and you've got a two handed overhead caster BUT you also have ruined the advantages of two handed rods for the intention they're designed and matched with the proper heads and leaders.

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

Except when fishing in salt/surf with a two handed rod.

 

https://youtu.be/ho7ZqGS8saI

[RexW 0]

Vicrider, I was trying to keep my answer as simple as possible. Discussions about casting 2 handed rods can get very complicated very quickly and I didn't get the impresson that the original poster wanted a very technical casting discussion.

 

Again, in an overly generalized answer, when someone just mentions "casting" a 2 handed rod, they are probably referring to a more traditional style spey cast that uses a water anchor, but if they are referring to a casting style that keeps the line in the air, they're probably going specify that it is an "overhead cast". With a single hand rod, the oposite is more common with an overhead style cast just being referred to as "cast", but other styles tend to use a more formal name such as "roll cast". But, as mentioned, these are very general statements.

 

I'll agree with part of your statement about using overhead casts with 2 handed rods; traditional rod designs and traditional designed lines were not designed for overhead casting. However, today, 2 handed rods are being used in a wide range of different fishing conditions and rods and lines are being designed differently. As FIN-ITE 34 mentioned one of the areas where using overhead casts with 2 handed rods is growing in popularity is fishing the surf. TFO even used to use a picture in their catalog of Nick Curcione casting their Pandion rod (he helped design that series) using an overhead cast in the surf with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. It is not dangerous to cast that rod series overhand, it was designed to be used for both overhead and traditional casting styles.

 

2 handed rods are very versitile tools that can be used in a variety of ways including some non-traditional methods. The key is to pick the right rod and line for the conditions. However, there are people that prefer the more traditional techniques and that do not like some of the newer techniques.

 

Personally, I've found 2 handed rods to be a lot of fun to fish with.

[phg 0]

The big problem I have is that I haven't figured out, yet, how to double-haul with a 2-handed rod.

[flytyer62 0]

Jack,

with one of the RIO or Airflo switch lines in the proper grain weight a switch rod is actually a very good tool for over hand casting given you have enough room behind you for a back cast.

 

RexW traditional spey and scandi casting do not use the water to load the rod like a skagit cast does ( thus the term rat tail) traditional spey casting is a touch and go cast and scandi is kind of in between. To make a proper "spey" cast only the leader should actually be in the water vast majority of the fly line is arialized into the D loop thus the need for 13'6" to 15' rods. two handed casting is really not all that technical a lot of the students that have gone through our classes are better casters with two handers that single hand rods.

 

Steve

[vicrider 0]

Okay, I'm going to bow to those much MUCH more knowledgeable than I. When I mentioned dangerous to overhead cast I was specifically speaking of the very front loaded spey and skagit lines and systems. When you get to switch lines they are little than WF lines in that the body of the shooting line is spread of 30' like a regular DT or WF line.

 

Steve, I suppose you're somewhere on the coast where any chance of my getting to your class are out of the question. Not many spey casting classes here on the edge of the desert in western OK.

[flytyer62 0]

Vicrider,

I am actually on the east coast picked up spey casting back in mid 1990's on the Miramachi river in NB Canada thanks to kindly Gentlemen from England staying at the lodge. I was using the traditional

9'6" 9 wt and mid week got a flair up of arthritis in my casting hand. he lent me a 14' spey rod and a few quick lesson I manage to get enough line out to hook a few salmon the rest of the week. I was hooked but did not take plunge until a few years later right before another trip up there. In 2000 I started to steelhead fish on the lake Ontario tribs, tried the big big rod a few time but liked hooking more fish than the tug so it sat idle. I then picked up 11' 7 wt, 11'6" 6wt then 12 ' 7wt . I use the 11' 7 to fish nymphs, sucker spawn and eggs later in our 10 day trip when my hand has gotten too sore from the 10' 7 wt single hand rod. the others are for assorted other big river / big fish situations.

 

Steve

[FKROW 0]

H Jack,

 

Any fly rod can be used to Spey cast or traditional overhead cast.

By convention, a overhead cast is where the line is in the air entirely on back cast and forward cast.

Many will false cast where the line is not released for forward cast and cycled several times back and forward in the air.

 

A Spey cast uses the water to anchor the cast and form an loop behind the caster to load the rod into the forward cast.

We have the two basics of Touch and Go and Sustained Anchor.

They have many names and variations such as Single Spey, Double Spey, Skagit cast, etc.

 

Switch rods is another marketing term for two handed rods less than 12ft long.

Originally used by Bob Meiser a custom rod assembler in Oregon for a customer who wanted a short two handed rod for estuaries that could be Spey cast and Two Handed over head cast. He wrote about the new rod used as a Switch Rod.

The rod marketing companies picked up the term and made "Switch Rod" very confusing for the industry.

The fishing magazine writers decided the term was intended for one handed or two handed casting and that is the popular Switch Rod definition.

We had short two handed rods for 100 years prior to the recent Switch Rod confusion.

They were always indented to be cast with two hands, not switched from TH to Single Hand.

Approximately 25 years ago we discovered the use of 16ft-14ft rod for salt water casting from the beach,,, two handed overhead and nice distances were achieved.

The industry then offered 11ft-12ft rods specifically designed for salt water two handed overhead casting. This was prior to the "Switch Rod" marketing craze.

 

The term Switch Cast is by definition a single Spey cast without change of direction, more confusion in the terminology.

In addition the Touch and Go casts are also called Air Borne casts, confused yet?

 

Recently the industry has introduced Trout Spey into the terminology,,, ultra light line two handed rods.

There are fun for smaller fish that are over powered with traditional Spey rods.

They were initially termed Micro Spey and we used 3wt and 4wt trout rods 7.5ft-9ft long with a short added butt section to convert the rods into two handed operation.

Custom lines were made by cutting up heavy salt water floating lines or older Spey lines in short lengths of 14ft-16ft.

 

Several years ago a book was published by RIO's Simon Gawesworth, Single Hand Spey Casting.

Simon demonstrated all of the conventional Spey Casts with a 9ft 5wt trout rod. He has been using these techniques for over 20 years.

 

It has been an interesting journey for the past 25 years, learning casting and teaching the fascinating two handed rod casting and line selection.

 

The term "Spey Rod" is mainly used in North America,, the rest of the world calls it Two Hand or Double Handed rod.

 

Regards,

FK

[Hatchet Jack 0]

Jack,

with one of the RIO or Airflo switch lines in the proper grain weight a switch rod is actually a

very good tool for over hand casting given you have enough room behind you for a back cast.

Steve

Yes! Rio's OutBoundShort works a hoot on my switch rod. Even with dead cats & wet socks.

 

 

H Jack,

Any fly rod can be used to Spey cast or traditional overhead cast.

By convention, a overhead cast is where the line is in the air entirely on back cast and forward cast.

Many will false cast where the line is not released for forward cast and cycled several times back and forward in the air.

Regards, FK

That's what happens. A roll cast to get some line out, then the backcast to shoot line backwards, then

forwards for the shoot, and she's out of the gate, gone. Depending on the size of fly, it might take

a cycle or two to get it all done.

 

Thanks gents for expanding on the definition of overhead casting, all makes sense now.

[sandflyx 0]

more than 25 years ago I to learned to fish a 14' 10wt. 2 hander on the beach and lower Delaware river (big water) for stripers. I used a fenwick that was made for overhead casting. I have found a Harrington 9'6" 9wt. for overhead 2 handed from the pacific coast to. the big rod delivers a head and running line out to 150+ feet when conditions are right.

[mikechell 0]

 

The term "Spey Casting" is mainly used in North America,, the rest of the world calls it Two Handed casting with a Double Handed rod.

 

The term "Spey casting" is from Scotland, where it was developed for the River Spey.

Why is the term mainly used in U.S.A. if everybody knows the casting method was developed in Scotland?

 

Not arguing, just curious.