flytire 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 For what it’s worth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 Interesting insight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 Note that the video is limited to flies that are SUSPENDED below an indicator. Suspended patterns do not have 6 degrees of freedom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_freedom The flies are being pulled downstream by the indicator because the indicator is on the surface of the water which moves faster than the water near the bottom of the river. So they are limited in the forward and backward direction The flies also are suspended and cannot move in the downward direction to follow the contour of the stream bottom. They also are limited in the ability to move laterally right and left in the stream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, SilverCreek said: Note that the video is limited to flies that are SUSPENDED below an indicator. I thought that was pretty clear. The conclusions only apply to a fly with the leader in a vertical position. I don't think he should have used the phrase "dead drifted" at the beginning of the clip, though. The result would probably have been quite different if he had shown what the fly would have looked like when fished from a sink tip line, or even if there had been heavy shot in front of fly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 4 hours ago, SilverCreek said: the video is limited to flies that are SUSPENDED below an indicator. However ... to some degree, ALL sinking flies are suspended. Even if you're fishing a perfectly drag free pass, the line itself will have some effect on the fly. Topwater flies can be fished drag free, and you can see that there's no twitch/pull from the line. Obviously, this is because all of the line/fly is floating "together" on the water's surface. As soon as the fly starts to sink, it is virtually impossible for all of the line to sink together. The heaviest part, whether that's the fly or the line, will sink faster, providing/feeling some effect on/from the part sinking slower. If the fly with a bead etc. is heavier, then the line will always be preventing it from falling as fast as it can ... providing some "suspended" effects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mikechell said: However ... to some degree, ALL sinking flies are suspended. Even if you're fishing a perfectly drag free pass, the line itself will have some effect on the fly. Topwater flies can be fished drag free, and you can see that there's no twitch/pull from the line. Obviously, this is because all of the line/fly is floating "together" on the water's surface. As soon as the fly starts to sink, it is virtually impossible for all of the line to sink together. The heaviest part, whether that's the fly or the line, will sink faster, providing/feeling some effect on/from the part sinking slower. If the fly with a bead etc. is heavier, then the line will always be preventing it from falling as fast as it can ... providing some "suspended" effects. I agree with you Mike and your observations are correct but I do not agree with using the term suspended for flies that are sinking because the definition of "suspend" is "to keep from falling or sinking by some invisible support (such as buoyancy)" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suspend Technically sinking flies are not suspended because they are sinking. What you are describing is mostly due to hydrodynamic drag, mainly due to the fly and some due to the tippet, resisting the gravitational force just like aerodynamic drag on something falling through the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2021 We're on the same page. Terminology might be off, but the aspect is similar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Bob LeMay 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2021 As a guy who not only fishes every kind of gear around... fly, spin, plug casting... I've always been interested in how a lure or fly sinks - and at what attitude, nose first, tail first, or mostly level... Along the way I've learned that I can influence how the fly or lure suspends or sinks - and at what rate, by varying a few things. The first item for sinking lures and flies is how it's connected to the leader. If I want the hook end to remain level as it sinks I employ a knot to the leader that is fixed and not "flexible" at all. A few examples of this kind of knot would be the clinch, the palomar, or the snell (probably not a knot at all...). Even a bonefish jig with this kind of knot will tend to sink in a more level fashion... The actual size and material used for your leader has some influence as well. Now if I want the lure or fly to sink nose first the attachment is always a loop knot which allows the fly or lure to pivot against the leader connection and go down nose first... In fly fishing we have an advantage since we can greatly vary how the terminal end (the fly) behaves by merely changing the fly line (or going to a setup that already has a different type of line ready to go). That's why as a general proposition I like my lighter rods (7, 8, and 9 wts.) set up with floating lines, and my heavier rods, 10 to 12 wts. , set up with full intermediate lines.. Yeah I know for freshwater anglers a 7 wt is not a "light rod" but I'm a salty type and we use heavier rods than most freshwater types.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamieofthenorth 0 Report post Posted March 16, 2021 In case you missed it, here's the follow up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
