Problems with Dumbell eyes

[Piker20 0]

Managed to fish today with some flies I had tied and flies I had received through forum swaps. All flies had dumbell eyes and I was using a sinktip and bouncing them around the underwater structure hoping thats where the fish might be.

The eyes on each fly twisted around to sit at various angles on the side of the hook. They were happy to be gently coaxed back around again although one fly I had received fell apart. What is the cause of the twisting? Is it all down to using more / some glue when fixing the eyes at the tying stage or is it just a problem with dumbells in general or is it because of hitting underwater rocks?

Can i add a wee drop of glue at this stage?

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

add a drop of glue and you will be fine usually its do to hitting stuff that makes them move a trick I use when tying in dumbells is after making the figure 8 wraps make a couple wraps around the thread between the eyes and the hook shank it tightens them up good if this doesn't make sense go to here http://www.youtube.com/user/rifleriversteelhead you can see me do it with the rattle

[Piker20 0]

Cheers, funny I was shown that with figure 8s a long time back but forgot all about it. I will have to include that from now on so the habit sticks. I'll add a drip of glue to the flies in my box. Dont mind them moving as much as falling apart when moved back. At least I can reuse the eye and hook on that fly to redo the pattern.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Glue is the key but putting a piece of mono on each side of the shank helps the glue do better.

 

Kirk

 

Tie in mono across the hook shank with a couple crisscross wraps, advance the thread to the rear a few wraps. Pull the mono back along each side of the shank and make some open spiral wraps to secure mono along the sides. Saturate with CA glue and wrap down good.

 

 

Put barbell eyes in place and do your figure 8 and other wraps.

 

 

Soak the wraps with a thin CA glue and finish wraping and tie fly as normal.

 

 

[Peterjay 0]

Kirk, you're a genius. I'm surprised your birthday isn't a holiday down there.

[Guest]

I do what 'slayer mentions and can't remember the last time I had any problems. The mono and glue approach looks very effective, but seems time and material consuming. (No offense Kirk! I just like to minimize my work to the absolute unless I'm doing special flies for some reason.)

[Stippled Popper 0]

Kirk, you're a genius. I'm surprised your birthday isn't a holiday down there.

 

He is a treasured resource!

[agn54 0]

I usually super glue the eyes in place after wraps, figure 8 and wraps around the eyes and above the shanks like Paul said. I usually don't have problems but have had eyes move after hitting rocks around jetties. Given how rough your waters are, if you are bouncing the flies off of rocks in that surf, you may want to try something stronger than super glue , like epoxy.

[fshrmanms 0]

I like to test the eyes with a little force to see if they will rotate before I send them off in a swap or tie them on to fish. Usually a little super glue is the cure. Learned that lesson when I had one from a swap that got slammed on three consecutive casts and landed three nice bream and then the eyes fell off when removing the hook from the bream!

[tidewaterfly 0]

I also do as Paul suggested, and now only occasionally they'll move from hitting into things, but have had the problem of them breaking. It's only the lead barbells I've had this issue with, never with brass or tungsten. I guess they could break too, if they're banged into rocks & such hard enough, I've just not experienced any issue with anything except lead. I've broken a few lead eyes before I even got a chance to use them.

 

In Bob Clousers book, he mentions coating barbell eyes & the thread wraps with epoxy to not only aid in securing them, but also to protect them from damage. That's fine with Clouser Minnow style flies, but not always practical with other types, particularly where you may be wrapping a material around the eyes. However, most such flies can be epoxied prior to adding the other materials. It would add another step, but might be worth the effort to reduce the eyes from moving around or getting broken.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Pete/Ron, thanks but it wasn't my idea. A good friend Ted Cabali told me about it and I think he got it from someone else.

 

Luvin, no offense taken. It does take a little more time and I don't use it on all of mine either but you do make up some of the time because you don't have to use as many wraps around the barbell eyes. The material is a half inch piece of mono and it really doesn't take long after you do a few and I really like the little extra width for an underbody.

 

Kirk

[JSzymczyk 0]

Wraps AROUND the figure-eights (betweent the eyes and the shank) as previously stated, and a drop of THIN penetrating CA (pink label Zap-A-Gap) is what I use to keep them from moving.

[Piker20 0]

great ideas guys thanks. I think for my own flies i'll look at coating with epoxy after doing the wrap around.

Kirk, I'll have a look at the mono idea when I'm wrapping material over my eyes and don't want to be waiting on epoxy to set. 4lb or 6lb mono dia about right?

[Kytroutbum 0]

I like to lay down one layer of thread, buildup a Dam of thread behind where the weight will go. then a drop of CA glue, then wrap the barbell while it is still damp. Figure eight it, then wrap between the barbell and hook to tighten it. I tie a series of weights on hooks, then go back and soak the figure eight threads with thin penetrating CA again. I let it dry while tying up the number of them I need before tying the rest of my fly. I feel that letting the thin CA penetrate may be as good epoxy. Using epoxy for me (appologies to Bob) is just one extra step and time to fool with. I've not had any "turning" of the barbells, but have had to repaint several.

[Piker20 0]

Yeah i'm not fussed about the paint coming off and I dont expect the flies to live too long. I will make sure I glue them properly as well as the wraps.

I just tied a quicky with Kirks extra mono girth and it seems to be strong enough under manual twisting. I used a good layer of glue around it as well so time will tell.