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somn

questions about progress and practice

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So, new to fly fishing and tying, and new to this forum. I started fishing about a year ago and immediately became just as interested in tying as I was in the rest. So I began with a $12 vise from Gander Mtn. and youtube videos. A year later and I'm finishing up a TU class and have eight to ten patterns that I can tie and enjoy doing so.


My question is, in the learning process, do you find slumps in your progression? I feel like all of my flies have the same flaws -- tail too long, legs too long, body too slim, dubbing not quite right, etc. -- even though I know what the flaws are and am mindful of it with every next fly. Is it something that just takes practice? I try to tie at least two or three flies every day, even if just for the practice alone. Regardless, I love doing it, so I guess that's all that matters, just frustrated that my flies don't quite turn out how I'd like them.


Additionally, not having any books, etc. on tying (maybe if I did, this would be answered), does anyone have suggestions on a progression of patterns? For example, in the class, we've gone from caddis nymphs to emergers to pheasant tail nymphs to wooly buggers to a simple streamer to simple dries. But I'm getting tired of tying the same things and want something different. An older neighbor fishes only dries and loves the Royal Wulff and what looks to be an Adams parachute (he gave me a couple that he'd tied but only knew the name of the Wulff) and I thought those would be good to get beyond the simply dries that we learned in class (rusty spinner and deer hair caddis).


Anyway, any suggestions, advice, consolation welcomed and appreciated. =)


~k

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The Internet can provide you a bazillion fly pattern and tying video

 

Charlie craven has an excellent beginners tying book and should be relatively cheap on amazon

 

Google "fly proportions" and bookmark them for future use. Cut out the graphics of proportions and tape them to a sheet of paper or cardboard

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Getting your proportions right is very important. I wouldn't move on to other patterns until you can get your tails, legs, and bodies the right sizes.

 

For legs or a tail on a pheasant tail nymph, you can tie them in long with 2 fairly tight wraps, then pull the butt ends until you are at the desired length (I make them slightly shorter than the hook shank). Pressing your thumb nail just in front the thread wraps while pulling the butt ends of the legs/tail will keep them from separating.

 

It's also important to use the right amount of leg/tail material. For a size #18 pheasant tail nymph (pheasant tail fibers) I use 4-5 fibers per side for legs, and 4-5 fibers for the tail (fish cant count). You can use slightly less material for smaller sizes, and slightly more for larger sizes.

 

For bodies, the thinner the better (for me anyway..). I try to use as few thread wraps as possible, while still building a slight taper up to the thorax.

 

Take your time to look over your fly after each step, making sure your proportions are correct. If something doesn't look right, do it over. Its better to waste a few materials than tie a fly you are not happy with.

 

Here's step by step instructions for tying the Royal Wulff if you want to give it a shot, or just look it over: http://mytroutfly.blogspot.com/2013/04/royal-wulff.html

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Welcome to the site & this wonderful sport! IMO, practice is the only way to get better. Unfortunately, it's easy to want to forego the monotony of tying the same patterns over & over & try something different. I went through a very slow process when I first started tying since the internet didn't as yet exist, I had no first hand instruction & very little resources. You at least have more advantages these days.

 

Books are fine, but there is a wealth of knowledge & patterns here on this site & on others. Youtube is a good source for learning to tie new patterns.

 

However, if you really want to improve, you have to set your mind to the fact that only by practicing will you improve those areas you're having issue with.

 

You could just repeatedly tie the individual steps of various patterns, such as just tie in tails or tails & bodies, until you're happy with the results. This is very boring, but a good way to quickly improve, as you concentrate on each step. This is also how some professionals tie, as it allows them to use a minimum of materials at one time & quickly replicate flies that all have the same appearance. I tied commercially for 15 years & most of the flies I tied where done in this manner. I had been tying for many years, but the

production tying improved my tying. It was very boring, but I still enjoyed the tying.

 

There's a lot to learn with tying & if you keep at it, it will be a life long process. I've been tying now for about 47 years & am still learning. However, most of the basic techniques are applicable to a wide range of patterns & fly types so once you've mastered the basics, any new pattern that utilizes those techniques will not be difficult to learn. Just as an example, dubbing a body is the same whether you're tying a size 18 dry fly or tying a 2/0 Steelhead fly. There are a few different dubbing techniques, but the basic idea is the same.

 

I no longer tie commercially, and do get in a rut sometimes. I've got more flies tied now than I'll likely use, but still I like to tie & experiment with new things. Unfortunately I sometimes have a hard time getting myself motivated to sit down & tie. I've not done everything, but have done everything I had an interest in doing. I will sometimes get an idea in my head or see a pattern somewhere that I really like & that will often motivate me to tie a few flies. So, tying something different, particularly something you've never tried is not a bad idea.

 

It appears from your post that you're primarily a trout angler. If you have intentions of fishing for other species, then I suggest that you try tying a few flies that are completely different than what you've been doing, but something that you can use at some point.

 

Just as an example, I'm a warmwater & saltwater angler, rarely getting the opportunity to fish for trout. However, in my earlier tying days I regularly tied various trout flies. I also tied such things as Keys style Tarpon flies. There are no Tarpon here where I live, but I found that they worked well for bass. The trout patterns worked well for panfish too, and of course when I did get opportunity to fish for trout, I already had some flies tied, so was prepared as best I could be.

 

Keep practicing the same flies, and slowly add additional patterns to your list of flies to try. Concentrate on improving your tying techniques & proportions, and before long you'll be tying each step so that they all look the same. Practice does make perfect with tying, but practice can still be fun if you make it such.

 

If you find yourself getting frustrated, stop & take a break, or try something else, then go back to whatever is frustrating you. I know that I would sometimes get frustrated & when I stopped & later went back the process was a whole lot easier, as I was more relaxed & my mind set had changed.

 

First & foremost, tying should be fun, so when it's not, it's time to set it aside & relax.

 

Hope this helps!

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Practice does make perfect, but only if you practice doing it the right way!

 

I would suggest you determine the dimensions of each part before you start tying your fly. For example, measure the length of the hook shank. If the shank length is, say, 12mm, then maybe your tails will be 12mm (for a dun) or 18mm (for a spinner.) and you could let your wings be 12mm long. You could even decide to predetermine the length and maximum diameter of the abdomen and the location where you will tye in the wings. (Although that might be overdoing it.)

 

Then, wrap your thread to the hook bend and tye on the tail fibers with two wraps. Measure the tail and adjust its length by pulling the butt ends carefully. (you can also make sure the fibers are on the top of the shank.) When the tails are the length you want, tye them down firmly and proceed to the next body part. Using your ruler, adjust each part as you tye it. Use a hackle-gauge to measure the collar feather. But if it looks too long or too short when you wrap it, replace it with an over- or under-sized hackle.

 

Once you have tyed enough flies you will develop an "eye" for proportions and you can drop the ruler. (I have been tying since 1986 and still keep my 15cm ruler on my bench at all times.)..

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If you find yourself getting frustrated, stop & take a break, or try something else, then go back to whatever is frustrating you. I know that I would sometimes get frustrated & when I stopped & later went back the process was a whole lot easier, as I was more relaxed & my mind set had changed.

 

First & foremost, tying should be fun, so when it's not, it's time to set it aside & relax.

I think this bears repeating -- Once you find yourself gettting frustrated, it's time to walk away for at least 5-10 minutes. Go do something else completely unrelated, or just have a beverage and stare out the window, anything to allow your mind to re-focus. You'll find things look much less daunting when you go back to the vise with a calm mind.

 

I would recommend picking up a copy of Skip Morris's Fly Tying Made Clear and Simple. I've looked through just about every introductory fly-tying book that's come out in the last 15 years, and for my money this is still the best of the bunch. I'd offer to send you my copy, but I loaned it to a student in one of my tying classes years ago and I never got it back. :) You should be able to find a used copy on Amazon or eBay that won't set you back too much--less than $20, I should think--and it will be well worth whatever it costs.

 

I think you're absolutely doing the right thing by just tying 2-3 flies per day, no matter what. This gives you constant practice, which is ultimately the only thing that will improve your tying. Keep doing that, and keep a healthy mindset about the whole business, and you will see improvement. Also, remember that, in most cases, the fish don't judge our flies nearly as critically as we do. It's fine to want your flies to be "perfect", but if they catch fish, that is definitely something to feel good about.

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Thanks for all the great advice -- pretty much confirms what I thought, that it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice. And thanks for the specifics on the PTN, I'll go back to it for a bit and work on getting it correct first. Luckily, I don't get frustrated with the process itself, just with the appearance of specific flies. It just feels like I'm 'stalled' at a certain stage of my learning and am trying to move past that.

 

I realize I shouldn't try to get into more and more complex patterns until I've become proficient at the few I have a my disposal, but when the frustration does hit, I prefer moving to a different fly rather than quitting altogether. But I'm not at all adverse to just stopping and having a beverage to relax and re-focus. =)

 

Tidewater, you're correct, I'm in the mountains of WV so mostly trout, but also bass and panfish. I'll definitely look up other patterns to try out as well once I feel I'm ready to move on. Whether it's healthy or not, I seem to be treating tying as a sport of its own -- tying stuff I may never end up using, just because the process is relaxing, interesting hobby and I get to work with my hands.

 

Seems like the more questions I ask, the more I realize how much I don't know.

 

Will definitely check out Morris's book -- very affordable on Amazon ($15ish, paperback).

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You have TIATIN (tie it all, tie it now,) syndrome. This is a common ailment that many beginning fly tiers develop. It is closely related to BIABIN (buy it all, buy it now,) syndrome. Fortunately there is a cure. The cure is focused repetition. You need to start with ONE pattern, and get it right. If your still having problems with long tails, legs, poorly tapered bodies, then you should keep working on those flaws or you will just be moving them on to any other patterns you try to tie.

 

You need to start at the beginning and get your first pattern RIGHT, after that then move on. Your first pattern SHOULD be simple and use ONLY thread. Start with a thread midge. This pattern will teach you all the basics of thread control. If you can't do good thread work, you will have problems with all your flies. Work on it until you have it right. ONLY then should you move to the next pattern. Getting these right won't take all that long, tying a dozen or so should be enough, and you should be able to move on in a couple of hours.

 

Thread midge:

Hook either straight or curved shank (scud,) hooks. Size 8 to 28. Start with a size 12. Then work down.

Thread: color is up to you. 3/0 for size 8 to 12, 6/0 for size 14 to 18, and 8/0 for smaller sizes. Black, white, red, gray, olive, tan, brown, and orange are all good thread colors for midge larvae.

 

Start the thread near the head, and start a smooth wrap to the bend (straight shank,) or half way around bend on a curved hook.

 

Now stop and examine this wrap, use a magnifying glass if necessary. All wraps should just touch, not overlap, and there should be no gaps. Are the wraps FLAT? Almost all thread will twist as you wrap it around the hook. Twisted thread won't lay flat, and twisted thread will become thicker as it gets round. Your thread layer will become thicker as you wrap. This is NOT what you want midges (and other flies,) get thicker at the head NOT the tail end. If your thread is twisted unwrap, and make 15 new wraps. Now just let your bobbin hand and watch as it starts to slowly spin. The weight of the bobbin is untwisting the thread. Now you know which way YOUR thread twists as you wrap. You can now spin your bobbin in that direction every 12 to 20 wraps to control twist and keep your thread flat.

 

 

Finish a smooth flat first layer and then reverse the thread and wrap to the starting point. Again look at the second layer. It should be smooth, no overlaps, and no gaps or bulk from twisted thread. On a size 12 to 8 midge, you will need a second and third layer of thread for the abdomen. Chironomids are a group of larger non-biting midges found in most sill waters. They make up the majority of the small fish's diet. In fact there are more species of midges than all other aquatic species combined. Midges are good everywhere, and should be in your fly box.

 

With your abdomen finished, start to build up a smooth thorax on the first 15 to 20% of the hook. The thorax is simply several more layers of thread back 20 % and forward again. Each pass back and forward should end one turn short of the last one. Three or 4 more passes should be enough for a thorax.

 

Now finish with 2 three or 4 turn whip finishes. Coat the whole fly with a thin coat of head cement.

 

Now your ready to add a rib. The rib can be wire, contrasting thread, or 2# mono-filament.

 

Tie in the rib right at the eye and wrap over it as you make your first wrap back. I like to keep a hold of the rib as I wrap to keep in right on top of the hook as I wrap. When your abdomen is completed, spiral the rib forward in evenly spaced turns to the eye. Your turns can get ever so slightly farther apart as you go forward, but they should be smoothly incremented.

 

Cover the first 15 to 20% of your rib with the thorax wraps. Finish as before.

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Excellent advice from everyone. All I can add is say that proportions for me all clicked when I started photographing the flies for this forum. The camera really exagerates flaws, and as Utyer says, learn the basics right and there is no pattern you cant make a good shot at. And you'll find you enjoy the tying more as your flies start to turn out just like those in the book, website etc you are copying.

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Ahh, very good. Examining with a magnifier and photographing are great ideas.

 

Also, I'll definitely start some thread bodied midges and follow the above instructions. After that I'll go back to the caddis larvae that we did the first week of class, since it's just all dubbing. Thanks all, you've given me a great place to 'begin again'.

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One other thing you might want to check out, is if there are any other tyers in your area. Do a google search for fly fishing clubs in your area or fly shops, many times the clubs or shops will have tying classes or tie ins and they are truly a great place to see just what to do or actually hook up with a seasoned tyer that can give you personal help on technique, proportions, and whatever else you might need help with(mine was learning how to dubb). Most tyers are more than happy to help someone learn more about the craft, as you've seen here for example. Guages are fine, but when you see one done right next to one that isn't, it really shows the difference.

 

I whole heartedly agree with utyer on how to start, learn one pattern, master it, then move on, otherwise you just take your mistakes with you onto the next pattern and so on.

 

Blane

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Before we had a slew of videos and tying books, I learned by buying a fly and using it as a model. It is still a good way to learn.

 

In fact, for many years, I would go to the local fly shop and ask what was the "hot" fly. I would buy the materials I didn't have, and I'd tie up a bunch.

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I learned a lot by doing what Silvercreek mentioned. I moved to western N.C. and had no internet but was lucky enough to be living less than a mile from a little place that had a good fly bin. I would buy a few flies each time that I went to the shop and learn to tie them before moving on to others. I still have a stonefly from that little shop that has kicked my rear for years now, but I will figure out what I am doing wrong one of these days.....I used to drive both my sons crazy when they were younger. When they were doing something I would always say that when you think you have practiced enough, practice some more, and when you think that is enough then practice some more...

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