Dirts 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2013 In A.D. Livingstons book of making in line spinners he states that Don Gapen once told him there was only three colors that should be of interest to a fisherman. They are white, yellow, and black. Food for thought and discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
netabrookie 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2013 I would have to add olive and purple to that list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2013 I've had the most success with white, black & chartreuse, both lures & flies. Strictly speaking color, I don't feel it's as important as other variables, such as presentation, most of the time. IMO, it's usually more important to present a fly or lure in the "strike zone" than the actual color being used. Just as an example, a fish might strike at either a white or a black lure or fly, if either are in a place that would entice such a strike. Color might be important by itself sometimes, however I feel it would be rare that color alone is the difference between a fish striking a fly or lure or not. More likely a combination of aspects, such as movement & perhaps color. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agn54 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2013 Anyone who has ever fished the salt will know that chartreuse should be added to that list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dirts 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2013 What a weird name for a color. Chartreuse is sort of between green and yellow. There is actually two colors. Web chartreuse is more green and traditional chartreuse is more yellow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2013 But as Lefty Kreh has said, "If it ain't chartreuse, it ain't no use!" I favor chartreuse a bit on the green side, but have had days when the more yellow shades worked better. Heck, even fluorescent yellow is sometimes called chartreuse. There's a lot of different shades of colors that folks have confidence in using, like "olive". I lean towards military "olive drab" as my most favored, but tie with other shades too, both lighter & darker. I also like mixed colors, especially with dubbing. For example, black olive, or olive black. To me these are black olive= olive base with black fibers mixed in, and olive black, black base with olive fibers added. These are not specific either, because anyone trying to mix dubbing materials to get these will end up with something different. Guess it's what you like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
utyer 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2013 If we are creating "lures" or attractor kinds of flies, then a small palette of colors is usually enough. White, black, yellow, red, orange, and chartreuse would be enough. These colors in many combinations are found in a lot of commercial lures, and fly patterns. I do feel that in "matching" a natural food form, then color IS very important. If your predominant bait fish has a brown back, then an imitation with a brown back is called for. The EXACT shade doesn't have to be a match, but it should be close. In matching subsurface flies, I feel that color is more important than in surface patterns. Gary Borger developed a "Color System" many years ago that provided 149 distinct shades of olives, browns, grays, tans, oranges, reds, yellows, and blues. The "System" wasn't suggesting that anyone NEEDED all these different colors, but was a to be used to record what the color if a found natural most closely matched on the chart. Then it was a simple matter to either make or buy a matching color material. There are "gaps" between shades, where other colors (say between #34 and #35) could fit, but it was Gary's view that the fish wouldn't distinguish between colors that were any closer together. I know that listing a fly body as light olive or brown olive leaves the exact meaning open to interpretation. Listing a color by the BCS # would give anyone with a chart an exact match. That said, your pattern using #33 for a Blue Wing Olive body, may or MAY NOT be right where I am. Insects (like people,) can display a wide range of color variations within the same species. For example: in some streams that I fish them, a PMD body is matched by #97 (buff tan,) and the same species in a close (but different stream,) would be better matched with a #26 (buff olive.) In many eastern streams the "Sulfurs" need to be matched by patterns with several different color bodies. Some of these would be brighter Olives like #17 or 27 others may be a #45 (yellow,) and still others might be a #67 (orange.) The word "Sulfur" means different things to different anglers depending on where one is fishing. By the way, these two insects Sulfurs in the East and PMD in the west are the SAME species. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
switch10 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2013 utyer, that is some excellent information, I agree entirely. What a great idea to include specific color codes in fly pattern recipe's. Especially since photos tend to distort the true colors of the fly as well... I think I might start doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase Creek 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2013 I think utyer hit it right on the nose. I can't see what a slight difference in a shade of color would make, yet you will find anglers that will argue for hours that the slightest variance in color will cause a fish to refuse. I just don't see that. In my opinion, the biggest things are - presentation, size, and profile (in that order), not whether you have a slight difference in color. Utyer is right - it doesn't have to be the exact shade, but somewhere in the ballpark. You wouldn't try matching a green bug with a orange fly, etc. A fish isn't going to refuse just because a fly is a tad off in color from what you're trying to imitate, as long as the presentation doesn't scare the bejeebies out of him and the size and shape are somewhere close to the natural. Fish really aren't that smart (no, not even Trout), they don't sit and ponder over things, they act out of instinct. "There goes something to eat - GRAB IT!". It's really not the rocket science some would have us believe. (I'm also a firm believer that you don't have to know the Latin name of a bunch of bugs to be a successful fly fisherman) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mudman 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2013 Color can often make a big difference. I mainly fish for lake run Steelhead and Browns in the Great Lake's tributaries. When the fish are on eggs, which is from September - December and then February - May, color is very important. Steel & Browns can key on one color at first light, change after sun up and then change again by afternoon. Then they can key on a completely different color near sundown. On most days the standard colored nymphs, stones and caddis flies will produce fish, but a natural tied with some flash can often be the difference between a slow day and a banner day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
netabrookie 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2013 After thinking about the question a little more than in my first reply, I have to agree with Chase Creek that presentation, size and profile are more important than color. I have caught trout with a parachute Adams during a sulphur hatch and also caught them with a white Wulff while March browns were coming off. When I first started painting over 30 years ago I thought that I needed every color available. The art stores loved me but I finally realized that with a few primary colors and a bit of creativity that I could achieve what ever shade that might fit the given situation. Baitfish and egg patterns are right there under the surface with the fish and they do get a better view and I think color plays a very important part, but then again why will a picky trout feeding on little minnows brutally attack a hot pink wooly bugger or a Mickey Finn? I have never seen a purple worm in real life or in photographs but yet the bass fishermen seem to have great success with them. I'm not trying to argue with anyone because I know that a lot of you have much more experience and knowledge than I do but things tend to get complicated all to often, in my opinion, and way too over thought. Its just flies drifting with the current, or eggs being swept downstream or minnows darting around with hungry little (or big) fish wanting to munch on them. I have found that the hardest thing to achieve while fly fishing is to try and keep your fly out of the bushes and don't snag it on the rocks under the water..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dirts 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2013 Hey mudman, I had a very good friend take his grandson up to the Southshore. They left at four in the morning and got twisted around but when they got to their fishing spot the wind picked up. I had tied someflies for their trip but I figured on copying a smelt or herring so I tied some Clouser minnows and made up some improvisions. He said he got a smallmouth on one of my original clouser flies but then the wind picked up too much so he switched to spinning gear. So I have regrouped and started searching the Great lakes trout and their preference for color so I can make up some flies with beads. The preferences were silver and copper or metalic and then I found that pastel colors. Cream color, light blue and green. These were spoon colors. So now Ive thought of wire wrap for weight and more flashabou on those clousers. I might add some clickers in the flies. The greatest gift is that the boy caught a nice rainbow. My other friend had a birthday so I tied him several panfish Charlies. I tied them in the videos white and pink. I told him to test them and let me know how they do in the Northwoods and since I'm new at this I ask them to give me feedback on durability. While in Walmart today the wife showed me some shaggie natural brown acrylic yarn so when I got home I tied another worlds uglest panfish fly. I have to wet these. My Kayak is screaming for water so loud I have to keep the garage door closed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyFishin'Jam 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2013 Hey if you are 'fly fishing' for great lakes trout you will find a whole load of use without touching a bead ever, or an egg. I was waiting for you to post some specifics wether it was offshore, flats, mangroves, lakes, rivers, creeks or whatever. Imitate what lives in the river, minnows, crayfish, sculpins, nymphs, crabs, shrimp, insects etc .Next, time of year and species targetted come into play, think of roygibv...What depths these colours are not visible in, next your quarry - how does it see colour??? Some species have capabilities such as modular colour sight depending on what phase the fish is in. You know red at depth appears grey? Some scientific papers around on the subject and as anglers we kind of use them. Solid colours and those natural blends come into play, some anglers love flash or sparkle, they add this. As stated tho your presentation is key, that is what matters, cast the best you can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2013 What a great idea to include specific color codes in fly pattern recipe What a great MARKETING idea... took off like wildfire hey? I say color is important, for whatever reason someone wants to give it. Might not be the most important variable, but it does matter. One big reason is that it would get extremely boring to just tie flies with 3 or 4 colors for the rest of time. Yes, you might be able to catch all the fish you are ever going to catch on flies which are only a few standard colors, but that would make some boring-ass fly tying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase Creek 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2013 I'm not saying color is NOT important, just that I think subtle differences in the shade really don't make that much difference as to whether the fish refuses the fly or not. If the color is in the ballpark, it should work fine. I hear too much discussion on whether this shade or that of the same basic color makes a difference to the fish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites