Rate my Clouser 3.0

[Cold 0]

 

 

Thread color matters, hair color matters, having the hair color in the right spot matters, having the eyes in the right place matters, having the butts tied down matters. Having everything backwards matters. As a beginner I think the details are important. If you don't want to tie a clouser the way it's suppose to be tied then don't tie a clouser and ask for critiques on a clouser.

 

Thread color does not matter.

Hair color does not matter.

Having the hair color in the right spot does not matter.

Having the eyes in the right place does not matter (so long as they're on the correct side of the shank).

 

Having the butts tied down actually does matter, for durability. Good call on that one.

 

The rest is subjective, and carries the question into the realm of "Are you tying this fly to my own subjective taste?"

 

 

 

I don't wish to diminish conversation, but how many threads on one board can we have about "what's the best vise" and "rate my Clouser"

 

If the discussions here aren't to your preference, leave and find another place to post that fits you better. Nobody is forcing you to stay here and help newbies.

 

Also, stereotyping "slacker newbies don't want to put any effort in" is old hat. Socrates, in his curmudgeonly later days before drinking the tea famously groused about the upstart new generation in ancient Greece. Unless you can do it better than him, you should be doing it exactly like him.

[Gene L 0]

We'll have to disagree on this, Cold.

 

Also, I'm not sure you have the chops to advise others to leave the board. I'm just saying.

[Cold 0]

We'll have to disagree on this, Cold.

 

Also, I'm not sure you have the chops to advise others to leave the board. I'm just saying.

It's fine to disagree.

 

And I couldn't possibly care less about what you think of my "chops".

[Gene L 0]

 

We'll have to disagree on this, Cold.

 

Also, I'm not sure you have the chops to advise others to leave the board. I'm just saying.

It's fine to disagree.

 

And I couldn't possibly care less about what you think of my "chops".

 

That takes a load off my mind.

[Poopdeck 0]

Cold, my point was if your tying a clouser it matters. If your tying something your way it's not a clouser so don't ask for critiques on a clouser. I agree with the slavish devotion comment but he asked to critique a clouser.

[Cold 0]

Cold, my point was if your tying a clouser it matters. If your tying something your way it's not a clouser so don't ask for critiques on a clouser. I agree with the slavish devotion comment but he asked to critique a clouser.

I'd be more inclined to agree with that perspective if the stated goal from the OP was to tie them exactly like Bob...but without that being stated, there's such a wide range of valid implementation in nearly every variable aspect of the pattern...while still being called a clouser minnow (rightfully, imho), that I can't see telling a newbie they tied it wrong because of the colors they chose or where they chose to put them.

 

If someone uses SF blend instead of bucktail is it still a clouser? I mean, that debate has been hashed out countless times...but I think it's a fairly safe position that hourglass eyes and bucktail tied in the style of a clouser minnow can safely be called a clouser minnow, regardless of color scheme.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to point out something like, "Your fly differs from Bob's original by..." but to say "Your tie is wrong because it isn't exactly like Bob's" is somewhat of a reach. At what point does the distinction stop mattering? If Bob uses FlyMaster and I use Uni, is my clouser wrong because it's not exactly what Bob's using?

[NoSlack 0]

 

 

never mind. not worth it

If you can't help a newbie without being a total douche canoe, don't bother.

X2

[Gene L 0]

No one has said anyone needs to tie a Clouser just like Bob Clouser instructs. But you can't mess with the pattern too much and still have a Clouser. Reverse the order of the bucktail, and you can still call it a Clouser, but is it really?

 

No one said anything (up until a couple of threads ago) about "slavish devotion." But there are parameters that should be met if you're going to call a fly a Clouser. You can tie a fly like an Adams with bright red hackle, but then it's no longer an Adams.

 

Those who would help a new tier do him no favors by advising him to wing it and elevating his efforts to the "no critique" level. This thread was about learning, the fly critiqued was a Clouser-esque fly that had some issues, as I and most others saw it. These issues were addressed. Clousers can and are tied in different colors, but there are a few standards...the location of the eyes, the lighter belly, the way the bucktail is secured, etc. You can tie one any color you want, and even the first post was a fly that will fish.

[Jokey 0]

As far as I am concerned if someone starts off by saying "Rate my whatever" then it is fair game for any and all criticisms....good, bad, ugly or otherwise.

 

Good on him for being open to that kind of possible feedback.

 

J

[tidewaterfly 0]

I mentioned tying the style as Bob Clouser ties it, but never said anything about "slavish devotion". I don't care how anyone wishes to tie them, that's their choice. I know I don't always tie them as Clouser does, and even Bob Clouser ties variations. However, I fully understand why Clouser includes all the specific details in his instruction. IMO this young man's learning process may be best served by learning how Bob Clouser instructs how to tie them, then making whatever changes he deems after that.

 

But since critique was asked for by the OP, IMO, if he's going to do as he likes anyway, it doesn't hurt to at least have him understand all the details & why Bob Clouser utilizes those details. There is "purpose" for the specifics of those details. No, doesn't mean variations or deviations won't produce a fly that won't catch fish. Heck, just tie a small bunch of bucktail on a hook & it will catch fish. Doesn't even have to be a Clouser Minnow or any variation to produce. Understanding the details Bob specifies might allow the kids to make better choices with how he ends up tying them.

 

Kid, if you want to learn how to tie a "Clouser Minnow" as Bob Clouser ties it or if you don't makes no difference. Same thing applies for any pattern. You can do as you like.

 

IF, you wish to learn about the Clouser Minnow from the guy who originated it buy the book "Clouser's Flies". It gives all the details for many of his patterns. All are good patterns, and you may even learn something for tying future patterns of your own.

 

I'm done.

[FlatsRoamer 0]

Stop calling me kid ,I'm not 5 years old. Second,if I didn't listen to all this, then how did my flies improve? I know, by writing down all the useful tips on a sticky note and placing them on front of me so I would know how to get better. So stop saying I don't listen because clearly that's not true

[Cold 0]

 

 

But since critique was asked for by the OP, IMO, if he's going to do as he likes anyway, it doesn't hurt to at least have him understand all the details & why Bob Clouser utilizes those details. There is "purpose" for the specifics of those details.

Completely agree, and my dim view of some of the critique certainly doesn't extend to everyone. Presented in the way you just described, it's certainly educational and informative. Unfortunately, that's not the way it's been happening.

[Gene L 0]

Stop calling me kid ,I'm not 5 years old. Second,if I didn't listen to all this, then how did my flies improve? I know, by writing down all the useful tips on a sticky note and placing them on front of me so I would know how to get better. So stop saying I don't listen because clearly that's not true

 

 

A bit more sensitive than is called for. If you don't like being called "kid," start acting like an adult. Which means either accepting posts here (or not) but maintaining silence if you disagree.

 

Your flies are improving, certainly, aided by the critiques here. Who knows, maybe you could be a GREAT tier. I'm not, will never be, but I've learned here and other sources and generally adhere to known and effective patterns.

[oldtrout58 0]

It's okay. If it catches fish for you, it's better than okay.

[JSzymczyk 0]

 

 

Unless you can do it better than him, you should be doing it exactly like him.

 

 

Not sure if that was sarcastic, but it is more or less my point. Bob Clouser put in the massive effort of refining the details of the pattern which is possibly the most discussed fly in the world. The work has already been done and the story has been written in painful detail if anyone cares to read it. In fact they don't even need to read, which is good given the current society. (Forgive me for getting all Socratic.) Literally, within a few seconds, ANYONE with an internet connection and a tool to access it, can have the CORRECT methodology for this style of fly laid out in front of them. History, concept, testing, refinement, and accepted product, all right there.

 

Then tiers choose to ignore it all, or just not even bother... they tie a dumbell eye on a hook with some bucktail, take a pic and ask for critiques on their "CLOUSER MINNOW". Whatever, do what you please, there are not many fly-tying police.

 

Should not part of discussion on a message board involve pointing out to new users HOW TO USE the features of the board, such as the search function?

 

Obviously no user is under any obligation to do anything on an invitational message board. If you'd like me gone due to transgressions, contact a moderator who has control. We're all here only because they let us be here. Just guests. Guests can get thrown overboard.