WWKimba

Poopdeck, part of my background is as a first aid/CPR instructor for the American Red Cross (was the professional in overseeing over 500 instructors in a larger chapter for 10 years). I do agree that teaching a skill is better when shown than when read, but I've also found that different people learn through different means. There are some that seem to get and retain the information through a book, some through some AV method and some by actually being there to see the skill performed. Oh, and by the way, I wrote a book on first aid/CPR as well. No attack on your viewpoint - just me bragging! :)

Appreciate the view Poopdeck.

I've seen similar downsides as well. I also don't tie stingers for your reasons plus I'm old and lazy! The comment was to quiet anyone who would worry about such matters. Thanks for your comments tidewater.

mikescell, This IS the beginner's section! You see your the one that would write the first tying description (well, so would I normally!). I've seen some of your work and comments on this site - this is an elementary level article - you are Masters college level! Thanks for the comment it's nice to know that someone listens when I write, now if I can only get that to carry over to when I speaking!

I bow and give homage to the better and well read man in the second row! :) And, yes, this was started by a newer tier looking for a book suggestion for newer tiers.

I saw the Schoolie - love the thinking that went into that fly! What I mentioned above is either tying this size or that size pattern using the same hook. (ie. tying a size 8 streamer or a size 6 streamer using the one size of hook).

I just saw a post from CapeBSalar asking about the best tying book for a beginning tier. I answered Helen Shaw's "Fly Tying" for many reasons but if I had to choose one it would be this - there is NOT ONE fly pattern/recipe in the entire book! I challenge anyone to give me another example of this in a tying book! It concentrates on handling and tying one material at a time - one chapter to each. Think of it this way, if you wanted to learn an instrument would you like someone to give you a song and teach you how to play it or would you like to learn how to handle the notes and the various sounds each makes if you do this or that while playing it? This gets me to this topic of thread control and this is not covered in deep detail in many books and even if you watch a video or a live demonstration you may not see the subtle ways the thread is manipulated. (Ever see a person play the clarinet - can you see what their tongue is doing to manipulate the sound??) Let me show you by an example. First, tying a Wooly Worm - many a tiers first or second fly they learn to tie. Basic recipe/directions. First is the materials list - normally in the order tied in on a well written recipe. ( I'll forgo that here.) Next - 1) Start your thread an eye diameter behind the eye. Then wind a smooth thread base back to the bend. 2) Cut a piece of red yarn and tie it in to form the fly’s tail. As we did on the last fly, wrap down the yarn on the hook shank from the bend of the hook up to a point about one eye diameter back from the rear of the hook’s eye. After tying in the yarn, cut the tail to a length roughly equal to the gape of the hook. After tying in the yarn, leave your thread hanging at the bend. 3) Prepare a 6-inch piece of chenille and tie it in by stripping off about a 1/4" of the chenille exposing the base thread. Tie down the thread and return your thread the starting point just before the bend of the hook. 4) Select and prepare a hackle feather by stripping the fibers from the tip of the feather leaving a bare stem. Then tie in the hackle feather at the bend of the hook. The feather should be extending rearward beyond the bend. 5) Move thread forward to one eye diameter behind eye. 6)Now begin forming the body by making one turn of chenille behind the hackle feather. Then wrap the second turn of chenille in front of the feather. Continue wrapping the chenille forward (over the tied-down tail material) to a point one eye diameter from the eye. Tie off the chenille and trim away the excess. 7) In this step, we will wrap (“palmer”) the hackle. That’s the key to creating the Woolly Worm. Grasping the feather firmly but not too tightly, wrap it in an open spiral toward the front of the hook. Space the turns no closer than about an eighth of an inch; a little wider spacing may be preferable. Wrap to that point one eye diameter back from the back of the hook eye, and then tie off the feather. Once the feather is tied off, add a couple of “security wraps” in front of the feather tie-off point as described earlier. Then use the very tips of your scissors to cut away the excess feather, trimming closely (but don’t cut your thread!). 8) Now form a small tapered head at the front of the fly. Use your half hitch tool to tie a couple of two-turn half hitches or use a whip finish to secure the thread Trim the thread, apply a drop of head cement, and you’re done. With that, your Woolly Worm is complete! First I believe that most tiers of any experience level would read this and say that it's a pretty complete set of directions and very similar to what you'd read in ANY fly tying book. But there is more going on that is not even mentioned! (Again why I love Helen Shaw's approach!) There are 6 mentions of the word "thread" and 10 mentions of the word/or form of the word "tie" in those directions (if I counted correctly on my fingers that is!). But beyond that it doesn't say what the thread is doing! Here's the more complete tying directions. (Anyone fall asleep yet?) The Wooly Worm (again I'll forgo the standard list of materials). 1) Start your thread an eye diameter behind the eye. Then wind a smooth thread base back to the bend using a relaxed thread that will allow you to cover more of the hook and tie a smoother base (not as important here because of the bulky materials we are using on this pattern but a good habit to get into. 2) Cut a piece of red yarn and tie it in to form the fly’s tail using a tight thread that will "cut" into the yarn to better secure it to the hook shank. As we did on the last fly, wrap down the yarn on the hook shank from the bend of the hook up to a point about one eye diameter back from the rear of the hook’s eye. After tying in the yarn, cut the tail to a length roughly equal to the gape of the hook. After tying in the yarn, leave your thread hanging at the bend. 3) Prepare a 6-inch piece of chenille and tie it in again using a tight thread for the same reason as above by stripping off about a 1/4" of the chenille exposing the base thread. Tie down the thread and return your thread the starting point just before the bend of the hook. 4) Select and prepare a hackle feather by stripping the fibers from the tip of the feather leaving a bare stem. Then tie in the hackle feather again with a tight thread at the bend of the hook. The feather should be extending rearward beyond the bend. 5) Move thread forward to one eye diameter behind eye use your relaxed thread here. 6)Now begin forming the body by making one turn of chenille behind the hackle feather. Then wrap the second turn of chenille in front of the feather. Continue wrapping the chenille forward (over the tied-down tail material) to a point one eye diameter from the eye. Tie off the chenille again using your tight thread and trim away the excess. 7) In this step, we will wrap (“palmer”) the hackle. That’s the key to creating the Woolly Worm. Grasping the feather firmly but not too tightly, wrap it in an open spiral toward the front of the hook. Space the turns no closer than about an eighth of an inch; a little wider spacing may be preferable. Wrap to that point one eye diameter back from the back of the hook eye, and then tie off the feather again with a tight thread. Once the feather is tied off, add a couple of “security wraps” in front of the feather tie-off point as described earlier. Then use the very tips of your scissors to cut away the excess feather, trimming closely (but don’t cut your thread!). 8) Now form a small tapered head using a relaxed thread so the head comes out smooth at the front of the fly. Use your half hitch tool to tie a couple of two-turn half hitches or use a whip finish to secure the thread Trim the thread, apply a drop of head cement, and you’re done. With that, your Woolly Worm is complete! Now how do I get a "tight" vs. a "relaxed" thread? By the spin you put on your bobbin. I your thread is wrapped in a clockwise or counter-clockwise manner. How can I tell? Attach the thread to your hook and let it hang - the direction your bobbin starts to spin in is the direction to relax your thread - anything wrapped will want to unwind! Think rope vs. a strap handle. Rope round and can cut in to your hand due to the smaller surface area. A flat strap handle spreads the pressure over a greater area. Another example I could've used is any fly where you need to pinch tie down a material. A tight thread will angle towards the tips of your finger/thumb where a relaxed thread will be perpendicular to the material being tied in or even point back into your finger thumb. Usually the directions will say something like tie in using loose turns and then remove your fingers and finish tying in the material. It should say to first tie in with 3-4 wraps of relaxed thread and then finish tying with a tight thread to secure the material. Oh, and why is it bad for the thread to be pointing to your fingertips - because at that angle it can miss/push the material back that you are tying down! If you've ever placed a newer tiers fly next to a professional/experienced tiers fly one just looks better than the other and you may not see the reason why. Thread control is probably the reason. One last thing take two of the same fly - one by a newer tier and one by an experienced/professional and carefully take each apart. The more experienced tiers fly will use less tying thread than the newer tiers (sometimes by up to half!). Again, thread control. Thanks for reading my musings. I tend to write like I talk and I've been told I have the gift of gab! If you tie an ugly fly you can do two things 1) Take your glasses off and things will look better and 2) Go out fishing on an ugly day and catch an ugly fish! See you on the waters.

I'm new to this site having been a Senior Member of the Fly Anglers On-line site. Over those years I participated in 6 swaps and hosted 4 or 5 others. It's a great experience in either situation again as long as everyone follows the schedule and guidelines. First off swaps, at least for me, are to be fun! I even like to give them fun names - The ROYGBV Swap- 6 month swap with a different color of the rainbow each month, The Pheasant Swap - flies using the body/wing/neck feathers of the male Ringneck Pheasant, The Wee Irish Dance Swap -micro jigs of course! After a while you can see each tiers style and you get a variety of flies/designs. And like I said you get to have fun tying with others.

Also, there's a guy from Binghamton NY (handle is Extremely Low Budget Tier - I believe) that has/had a site - Google under Exacto knife fly tying vice to see if it's still out there. Also, I know he had plans on writing a book on this subject (this info is about 10 years old BTW). With my Cub Scouts we also made a tying vise out of a couple pieces of 2" by 4" and an old fashion (NOT spring operated) clothes pin (his design as well). Hope this helps and I still have the specs on the vise -let me know.

With the Cub Scouts I tied up some whip finish tools. All it took was some 2 lb. monofilament, toothpicks, some tying thread (or just simple sewing thread and some nail polish (you could use head cement). I wrapped the mon around the top long edge of the toothpick box and then cut on each side. Place in pliers or needle nose and touch each end with a flame, blow out when a small bead forms. Fold mono in half and tie onto end of toothpick (the beads help keep the mono from slipping). Finish with nail polish. To use lay on top of the head of the finished fly and wrap 3-4 times over the mono loop, stick line through loop (I stick the end of the bobbin through, holding tension, cut the tying thread and pull the toothpick and the tying line will be pulled under the 3-4 ties and you have a whip finish. I could tie up a hundred for only a couple bucks and a couple hours work.

Landon, on your "inverted" Walleye fly, I will tie inverted colors and fish them as wounded baitfish. Ever wonder why there's rarely seen a wounded minnow -because nature takes care of them. Fish love an easy meal.

I like that the author thought outside the box and addressed a couple of the challenges associated with such a fine pattern. I'll check Bob's fly and thanks Philly!

Hands down is Helen Shaw's "Fly Tying". It does NOT have a single fly pattern in the whole book! What she does do so very well is teach how to tie using each material - thread, floss, wool, dubbing, etc... She'll teach you the finer points of tying the materials first (learn to play an instrument by learning the notes first approach) the go and find some patterns to tie.

Back in 2006 Richard A. Lewis wrote an article for the Fly Anglers Online site entitled "Tying Deep Minnow Clones" (www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/030606fotw.php). He was trying to show a Clouser based fly but with some advantages of using kink shanked (popper) hooks instead of a normal streamer hook. (Mustad's 33903 was an example used.) It's a great read of a very good idea. The one thing I thought of is that the 33903 actually has TWO kinks in it, one up and one down. Being cheap, I mean FRUGAL, I said why not tie TWO sized flies using a single sized hook. Mr. Lewis used the front kink in his design and he explained the reasons in that fine article. What I do is also use the back kink to tie a size bigger fly. The one additional step I take is to mostly fill in the kink with the same sewing thread he mentions as a base for the eyes. By filling in back crook/kink MOSTLY in accomplishes getting the eyes in a spot where the fly still fishes hook up. If you're worried with short hits that's why the fishing gods invented stinger hooks. Just figured I'd share the thought as well as the fine article.

Back in 2006 Richard A. Lewis wrote an article for the Fly Anglers Online site entitled "Tying Deep Minnow Clones" (www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/030606fotw.php). He was trying to show a Clouser based fly but with some advantages of using kink shanked (popper) hooks instead of a normal streamer hook. (Mustad's 33903 was an example used.) It's a great read of a very good idea. The one thing I thought of is that the 33903 actually has TWO kinks in it, one up and one down. Being cheap, I mean FRUGAL, I said why not tie TWO sized flies using a single sized hook. Mr. Lewis used the front kink in his design and he explained the reasons in that fine article. What I do is also use the back kink to tie a size bigger fly. The one additional step I take is to mostly fill in the kink with the same sewing thread he mentions as a base for the eyes. By filling in back crook/kink MOSTLY in accomplishes getting the eyes in a spot where the fly still fishes hook up. If you're worried with short hits that's why the fishing gods invented stinger hooks. Just figured I'd share the thought as well as the fine article. This is repeated in the Beginners Tying section as well. They say thanks and ask questions while the more senior members like to discuss - I like both!

Nope Philly no crossovers from you to me but I sure am happy our paths crossed here! I'm live just west of Syracuse, NY. I mentioned the Scouts well our town has 12 parks that they own - the towns really not that big! One is a place called Gilley Lake. It's a manmade lake and I was the program director for the Cub Day Camp there for 5 years as well as on the Boy Scouts National teaching faculty teaching people from the northeastern states how do be directors/program directors at day camps. If you know anyone that ran day camps about 20 years ago and attended the camp school in Massachusetts they may have had me as one of their instructors. You see it was a 2 1/2 day affair and we did a lot of team teaching and the formula was you get 3 very knowledgeable instructors to inform and one really loud one to keep everyone awake! As long as that loud spot was open I was in like Flynn!

Sounds good, count me in. It'll be my first swap on this site, participated and host a few in my years on FAOL.

The classic Bucktail streamers are nice ties to tie and fish with. They look easy but the devil is in the details. Check out anything written by Fran Betters on this pattern.

Alpaca naturally comes in 11 shades from white to black including browns. I get mine from an alpaca farm just south of me in Marathon, NY. They have a store on site that sells yarn and garments as well as ~1/2 gallon bags of the wool. It's a grab-bag type arrangement - some bags may have 2 colors other 4 different colors etc. I went in a said I was tier and that I was looking for a variety more than volume. The owner went back to where the wool was processed and came out with a bag of 7 of those 11 colors. Would not accept payment but she had mentioned that the local sheriff liked to fly fish. I tied 7 patterns and when I was in the area about a month later delivered them to her to share with her friend the sheriff. I don't think it'll get me out of any speeding tickets but I hope he had fun with them. Also, I do agree that the material dyes well. Try to get the natural colors and one large bag of white and dye to your hearts content.

Could you PM me the mailing info as well. And thanks for the opportunity to help out.