Not following the recipe?

[RoaringForkFlyer 0]

I've been using some feathers of local fowl here in the area in place of what I'd buy at the fly shop. Had success with the gold ribbed hare's ear in that I use a local black feather for the darker backing and the tail.

 

There's a TON of hunting up here and I'll have an abundance of deer, elk, turkey, countless birds, some fox, and rabbit materials throughout the year... I'm wanting to learn to use them to supplement other items. Because.. why not?

 

Just wanted to know the thoughts of you vets on replacing store bought materials for those you can supply yourself, especially when they aren't "exactly what the recipe calls for."

 

 

Also... what about using the hair from pets? I laugh typing this because I envision shaved dogs resting below a fly tying bench... but you know what I mean.

 

Any of you replace with local, wild materials or domestic pets?

[perchjerker 0]

For starters in addressing your questions, The Tup's Indispensable, a great English dry fly (works great in this country too), has a body tied using the yellow hair from a yellow and white spaniel and a thorax using the urine-stained hair from a ram's scrotum; pretty much the Alpha and the Omega of what one can use in the way of animal hair! I have some very nice dark gray stonefly nymphs with bodies tied with the shed hair from a Siberian Husky that belonged to friends.

 

With respect to feathers, be careful 'harvesting' feathers found lying on the ground; anywhere, even in your own yard! There are some very stiff Federal penalties for even picking them up! I know, this seems absurd at first, but the authorities have no way of knowing whether you picked it up, or shot the bird to get it. Think: picking up red feathers from the red crown of a male whooping crane! There are four different Federal Acts under any and all of which you could be charged, and which can include forfeiture of your vehicle, if you are afield and transport the feather home in your vehicle. Some states also have rather strict laws governing this practice. There are only three species of birds in the US that don't fall under the aegis of one or more of these acts: pigeons; house sparrows; and, starlings (great soft-hackle feathers!). There is a fourth group that includes invasive species, such as Monk Parakeets, that are also exempt from protection. Feathers can be harvested from any game bird legally taken during a legal hunting season with absolutely no legal ramifications.

 

In summation, just remember two things: first, the founding "fathers" (mothers too) of fly tying did NOT have stringent governmental laws to abide by; and, second, they used what ever they had at-hand. And most importantly, there were no pattern books for them to follow!

 

I realize that "common sense" is apparently an oxymoron today; but, never-the-less, just use it it your acquisition of the type materials you asked about and enjoy your tying.

 

Cheers,

paechjerker

[DevinKaradeema 0]

Yep what he said...

 

 

i use my ferret for dubbing alot and i have been trying this mayfly with hedgehog quill, my mom gives me the random ones her cat gets stuck with.

[notenuftoys 0]

This has me thinking now. My chocolate lab sheds a lot, and my wife has jokingly asked if I could use any of his hair for fly tying. Hmmm.... maybe I could.

[Pelhament 0]

Deviating from a recipe to make a fly yours is what fly tying is all about. There would be no progression in this hobby if we didn't branch out from the standard recipes. I think you are totally fine to replace materials as long as you aren't taking the functionality away from the fly. For example you wouldn't want to use Schlappen in place of dry fly hackle.

 

Have fun, that is what its all about.

[deeky 0]

Rarely do I follow a recipe exactly.

 

If you are harvesting your own materials - BEWARE OF BUGS!!!!

 

Living animals and humans naturally carry bugs, some of which will destroy your harvested materials and then jump to your purchased material. I just got a bunch of turkey feathers from a local hunter. I have them in a zip lock back and in the freezer for a week, out for a week, and back in for another. First freeze kills anything living, week inbetween allows eggs that survive the freezing (more hardy than hatched insects) to hatch, second freezing kills those remaining bugs if they survive. Only then do they go near my tying area.

 

Find the hunters in your area, particularly bird hunters. They can be a great source. Price out some barred wood duck flank and then consider most hunters will just give it to you (at most in exchange for a few flies, they can't legally sell them) and you will see what I mean.

 

Deeky

[ozzy1038 0]

I use anything and everything I can get my hands on to tie with. I hunt so that is a source for me. I also work with a guy that raises multiple varieties of birds. I have been trying to get him to raise partridge and jungle cock for me. So far though he provides me with plenty in exchange for smoked trout and venison jerky. I am trying to get him to grow some birds for hackle since that is the most expensive thing that I use. I have dachshunds and plan on brushing them and using their fur as It would be awesome for dubbing on some buggy legs. I believe in the Orvis fly tying manual that Rosenbauer mentions someone using dryer lint for dubbing. I now have a bag of that. I imagine you could make your own custom colors depending on what you dry. It's a little more involved than a coffee grinder but should work. I saw a ground squirrel in the yard today and thought about the nice dubbing it would make. I also caught a shrew in a trap today and were I not so lazy and were it not a little weird I would get the clippers out and shave that booger for its fur!

 

All in all it's about cutting costs and getting the most out of what is before you. Hell, I render the tallow off the deer I shoot to make soap. If I can use the deer I shot to get clean and catch some food, why not!

 

I will follow a recipe if I want to match it exactly and have all the right materials on hand. Otherwise I substitute what is close.

[RoaringForkFlyer 0]

Thanks guys. Some good laughs and some good advice!

 

I'll be using some of the golden retrievers underbelly as well as freezing all feathers I find... careful to hide them from game wardens.

 

Thanks again for the great advice as always... gives me the freedom to start looking at what I find around me to tie.

 

For starters in addressing your questions, The Tup's Indispensable, a great English dry fly (works great in this country too), has a body tied using the yellow hair from a yellow and white spaniel and a thorax using the urine-stained hair from a ram's scrotum

 

:bugeyes:

 

 

[Fred H. 0]

Lot of good advice in this thread. Pattern varriants can be more sucessful than the originals ,on one body of water comparred to another. Insects species vary from region to region and most of the classic patterns were impressionistic versions of regional insects. So experiment with what you have and let the fish tell you what works and what dosent.

Fred

[RoaringForkFlyer 0]

Thanks guys. Some good laughs and some good advice!

 

I'll be using some of the golden retrievers underbelly as well as freezing all feathers I find... careful to hide them from game wardens.

 

Thanks again for the great advice as always... gives me the freedom to start looking at what I find around me to tie.

 

For starters in addressing your questions, The Tup's Indispensable, a great English dry fly (works great in this country too), has a body tied using the yellow hair from a yellow and white spaniel and a thorax using the urine-stained hair from a ram's scrotum

 

:bugeyes:

 

 

I've been following some rams around lately just waiting for them to dribble a bit... :wallbash:

[flytire 0]

from the web

 

"The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 (aka MBTA) was first enacted to implement the 1916 convention between the United States and Great Britain for the protection of migratory birds. This offered much-needed protection to many bird species during a time when commercial trade in birds and their feathers was popular. Prior law in the U.S. that covered these areas include the Lacey Act (1900) and the Weeks-McLean Law (1913)."

 

"The Weeks-McLean Act was a law of the United States. It was sponsored by Representative John W. Weeks ® of Massachusetts and Senator George P. McLean ® of Connecticut. It prohibited the spring hunting and marketing of migratory birds. It also prohibited the importation of wild bird feathers for women's fashion, ending what was called “millinery murder”. It gave the Secretary of Agriculture the power to set hunting seasons nationwide, making it the first U.S. law ever passed to regulate the shooting of migratory birds. It became effective on 4 March 1913 but, because of a constitutional weakness, was later replaced by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918."

 

the lacey act

 

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusfd16usca3371.htm

 

 

feathers- be careful what you pick up in the yard, wood, road etc and dont broadcast it on forums and bulletin boards

[JSzymczyk 0]

there would have to be a cosmic convergence of top drawer a**holes for someone to be charged for picking up a feather in their own yard, and tying a fly with it. Not saying it can't happen, but I've never heard of it. Selling or yakking loudly about it would be stupid.

[perchjerker 0]

JSzymczyk:

 

All it takes is one jerk to see the fly and recognize the bird the feather came from to turn you in. Though too long to relate here, I know of two cases, one involving a local individual, that border very closely on being at this level. The case involving the local individual resulted as a consequence of a friend bringing another friend of theirs, but not of the charged individual, to the charged individual's home for a social gathering. The guest-of-a-guest recognized something and reported the host! They don't come much lower than this; but it has happened!

 

The real question is: What is the risk level if I pick it up and use it? The answer to this is case-by-case and individual-by-individual.

 

flytier:

 

There are four federal Laws potentially involved. You have identified two. The other two are the Bald Eagle Act and the Endangered and Threatened Species Act (ETSA). The MBTA is by far the most encompassing of the four and is the law that protects all but the three species I previously mentioned, and certain other invasive species, such as Monk parakeets, cattle egrets, etc. Certain very specific criteria have to be met before any of the other three Acts come into the picture.

 

perchjerker

[Guest]

Search out taking care of and preparing skins and pelts right here on the board, plenty has been written. Get a few box's of 20 mule team borax laundry soap before bird hunting season starts, you'll need it to dry the skins.

 

As others have said keep the fresh skins and pelts away from your current tying supplies until you've cleaned and treated them. Anything that's legal to hunt can be used in flies.

 

There are a few books about preping your hunt for fly tying materials Eric Leiser "Fly Tying Materials" older book but still excellent, one other I've seen posted on the boards is "From Field to Fly"

 

If you run into problems ask and we'll help you out!!!!!!!!!

 

Fatman

[ozzy1038 0]

 

Along the same lines as what has been discussed, here in Iowa a guy found a dead bald eagle in the ditch and cut its talons off. DNR and whoever else was involved were very interested in finding this guy. I don't know what came of it, but were I him, those talons would have been back in a ditch if I were to catch wind of the DNR wanting to speak to me.