What are they worth?

[ausablemur 0]

This fall I decided to mix a little business with pleasure and sell some flies. I use good hooks and materials and tie no differently then I did for myself and friends, a little extra care and glue spots for longevity etc.. So far, at the rate I'm selling I'll be lucky to break even. Regardless, I enjoy it. I try to gauge my prices according to material cost and difficulty and prices range from $1.95 to $2.50. Looking on line I see the same patterns going for .89 cents to $1.00 and curious as to what's up with these low prices? I think I'd rather give them away as to sell at those prices. Any opinions would be appreciated.

jim

[Lance Kekel 0]

The prices on the flies your seeing are imports coming in from Kenya and south east asia. No way to compete with those prices. I sell mine based on the fact they're tied here and your supporting local tiers. If I'm selling to shops I typically get about 50% of what they sell them for. You make your money on speed. If I can't tie a fly fast enough that I can average about $10/hr I won't tie it for a shop.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Ausable, its impossible to compete with overseas tiers. As Lance said, that is the likely source of those. If you enjoy making money selling flies, you may have to find other kinds of flies to tie, namely simple ones that fetch more money. Saltwater, bass and pike flies fall into that category as they typically go for upwards of $5 and if you find someone that needs offshore flies, you can get in the $20 neighborhood.

You may be making them to durable also. I tie a fly that once glued, will catch over 75 fish and that is how I tie it for my guide clients. However, a shop wanted to carry them and asked if I could make it where it didn't last that long so he could make some re-sales. He said, if his customers caught a dozen or two fish on one fly they are more than happy.

 

Kirk

[tidewaterfly 0]

You may be making them to durable also.

 

I understand the philosophy by a shop of not wanting them to be too durable, but IMO, that's one of the better selling points of domestically tied flies and a reason for repeat customers to want to come back for more. When I tied commercially, I took great pride in providing flies as durably tied as I could make them, and still produce them at a reasonable price. I didn't worry about trying to compete on price!

 

However, no matter how hard you try, there will be those folks who will not pay the higher price for the better tied flies. Value will always be in the individual customers perspective, so therefore your customer base will be limited. What you need to do is educate your customers on the true value of a fly on which they can catch far more fish than they can on the cheaper imported flies before they fall apart. There will be enough that lose flies to snags & tree's to keep them coming back if you provide a better product. Of course, it will take time!

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

Hmm, i wonder if anyone else has thought of exchange rates and minimum wages in different parts of the world? I spend a bit of time in Australia, and they right now must have one of the highest minimum wages there is. Everything is really expensive, a pack of smokes can cost $25 and don't even ask what guiding will cost.

 

As it is all relative, people need to earn more to just live. I have seen a number of fly shops in Melbourne and Perth, and just checking their prices on flies i was pretty shocked. Just looking at a simple bare bones clouser is $8 AUD which is probably close to $9 USD!!!!

 

So with the exchange rate and ability to tie them rather cheaply over here in North America i'd have a guess that there is a huge profit to be made.

 

I would never tie commercially but have been requested on numerous occasions to sell patterns in Aus which i said 'no'.

 

The demand is there.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

I may have phrased that wrong Tide. I still tied quality flies as should ausable continue to do and will last as long as any fly tied in the early days and certainly out last cheaply tied flies. So, you're still offering an excellent product just not a supernatural one. With the addition of CA for regular species such as trout, bass, redfish, etc. its almost not necessary to use glues. I was tying flies and catching dozens of fish before I even know what CA glue was. Now, for bluefish, spanish mackerel, etc. you need glue, synthetics and such to just have the fly last for a few fish.

 

At first when that shop owner asked me that, I refused out of pride in my work then he explained that most people won't even catch two dozen redfish in a whole season and if the fly lasted for 24 fish, they wouldn't think of it as falling apart or feel cheated. He also pointed out what I already knew; there are no rocks and trees to lose your flies on so his only repeat business is from fishers losing flies to fish, which is rare and the other being them falling apart. I thought about it and agreed being young and also needing fly orders, if that's what the boss wanted, that is what I had to do to stay employeed. Knowing what I do today, I still feel like I made the right decision and it really isn't unreasonable and still something to be proud of tying flies that last for 24 or more fish.

 

However, I don't tie for shops any longer and my retail customers get flies tied with CA, nail polish and epoxy that last a minimum of 36 fish unless it encounters the side of the boat or some other object other than a fishes' crushers.

 

Even tying to retail customers, I only make about $10 per hour. Biggest reason for that is most of the flies people want from me take thirty to sixty minutes to tie! Being the horrible business man that I am, I can't see charging more; I wouldn't be able to afford the prices of the flies I'm selling so I really can't go up even though the clients I have would pay more.

 

Kirk

[heavynets 0]

1355335720[/url]' post='525662']

This fall I decided to mix a little business with pleasure and sell some flies. I use good hooks and materials and tie no differently then I did for myself and friends, a little extra care and glue spots for longevity etc.. So far, at the rate I'm selling I'll be lucky to break even. Regardless, I enjoy it. I try to gauge my prices according to material cost and difficulty and prices range from $1.95 to $2.50. Looking on line I see the same patterns going for .89 cents to $1.00 and curious as to what's up with these low prices? I think I'd rather give them away as to sell at those prices. Any opinions would be appreciated.

jim

 

You mentioned the expenses of hooks and material which cuts into profits. Did you also include federal excise tax which is due?

[ausablemur 0]

1355335720[/url]' post='525662']

This fall I decided to mix a little business with pleasure and sell some flies. I use good hooks and materials and tie no differently then I did for myself and friends, a little extra care and glue spots for longevity etc.. So far, at the rate I'm selling I'll be lucky to break even. Regardless, I enjoy it. I try to gauge my prices according to material cost and difficulty and prices range from $1.95 to $2.50. Looking on line I see the same patterns going for .89 cents to $1.00 and curious as to what's up with these low prices? I think I'd rather give them away as to sell at those prices. Any opinions would be appreciated.

jim

 

You mentioned the expenses of hooks and material which cuts into profits. Did you also include federal excise tax which is due?

 

Federal Tax Exemptions

 

Manufacturers' unions and industry lobbyists work to reduce the amount of excise taxes levied on industries, goods and services. The United States Congress passes new exemptions and tax refunds each year, while earlier exemptions expire or are extended. Domestically made and imported fishing and archery products are exempt from federal excise taxes, with later legislation exempting certain types of wooden arrows.

 

 

Read more: What Is a Federal Excise Tax? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5047991_federal-excise-tax.html#ixzz2EsAmTT3j

[JSzymczyk 0]

If it were me, and it isn't because I don't sell my flies, I would read and re-read the ACTUAL tax law instead of an "e-how" web article. Just sayin'.....

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

I sell flies and guess what I have to pay the 10 percent tax you do have to pay FET use form 720

[flytyer62 0]

First off new here and this was right up my ally

 

Aus,

I have tied commercially for about 12 years now and tied supply orders for a couple of years before that. I sell all of my flies to local shops and several guides I have befriended over the years. First off don't expect to get rich, it is a decend second income at best, unless you have a few names flies selling through national suppliers. Depending on the patterns I charge between 84 cents and 1.10 for regular trout flies. At your prices most shops will not buy them and a lot of shops are actually cheaper on some patterns. First off you need to break down your material costs realistically. I do not know how you are buying your hooks, I buy in bulk so the actual cost of the individual hook cost is a lot less. same with most common materials if you break down what you actually use in a common trout fly your material cost is about 30-38 cents a fly. As was said above being able to tie WELL fast is a plus. I can usually turn out 2 1/2 dozen of common nymphs and about 2 dozen drys in an hour. You have to have all materials sorted and hooks counted out and ready. You can make decent part time money.

A note on excise tax, if you sell any amount of flies you need to fill out the above mentioned 720 form which is the excise tax paid on the frist sale of any fishing or hunting product part of I believe the Walloup-Brough bill. As was stated above if you can find a nitch selling a specific saltwater or warm water flies. I have a good friend that ties pike flies they don't cost all that much to tie but he can get about 3.50 from shops for them. He makes as much as I can tying about half as much. Hope this helps,

 

Steve

[ausablemur 0]

Many thanks to all for the opinions and suggestions. Yes, I see now the excise tax is required. I'll keep it civil and not comment on my opinion of that.

Cheers

[Al Beatty 0]

Federal Tax Exemptions

 

Manufacturers' unions and industry lobbyists work to reduce the amount of excise taxes levied on industries, goods and services. The United States Congress passes new exemptions and tax refunds each year, while earlier exemptions expire or are extended. Domestically made and imported fishing and archery products are exempt from federal excise taxes, with later legislation exempting certain types of wooden arrows.

 

 

Read more: What Is a Federal Excise Tax? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5047991_federal-excise-tax.html#ixzz2EsAmTT3j

 

Hi group,

 

Gretchen & I are still paying Federal Excise Tax filed on form 720 (back side of the form, 10%)and after several tax audits I plan to continue paying. The current tax information we are working with we have to pay on the "first sale" in the USA and the lowest value that sale could have been based on. EX: If you sell Royal Wulffs as part of your business (retail & wholesale) then you pay the FET based on what the wholesale price would have been even if your sale is retail to the end user. Tax audits aren't much fun, we'll keep paying the tax when it is due. Take care & ...

[NoSlack 0]

Hi group,

 

Gretchen & I are still paying Federal Excise Tax filed on form 720 (back side of the form, 10%)and after several tax audits I plan to continue paying. The current tax information we are working with we have to pay on the "first sale" in the USA and the lowest value that sale could have been based on. EX: If you sell Royal Wulffs as part of your business (retail & wholesale) then you pay the FET based on what the wholesale price would have been even if your sale is retail to the end user. Tax audits aren't much fun, we'll keep paying the tax when it is due. Take care & ...

 

 

Yup, keep the tax man happy! LOL

[jrill 0]

I think you guys are dreamin if you think low priced flies only come from over seas. I can direct you to web sites that sell american made flies for 60 cents or so and they are all made here in the usa. To compete you need to buy your supplies in bulk and learn to tie fast, real fast.