tying with feathers

[phishy 0]

YOWZA. I attempted to tie a SBS from Davies McPhail for a salmon fly. It was the first time I've ever worked with feathers, and I have to admit - making the wings was not as difficult as I had imagined it would be. But tying them on? Completley different story.

 

My fly ended up looking...well...I've attached a picture. I know, I know, I feel sorry for the fly too. Poor little guy didn't stand a chance lol.

 

As you can see, the wings essentially fell apart during the tying, and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to keep them together during the process.

 

Any tips/suggestions for when I attempt this again?

 

 

[Piker20 0]

It's not easy. Which fly were you tying? The wings do depend on which bird you take the feathers from and then even then, some wings are better than others from the same bird species. Dave makes his vids look easy and it does take a dozen or so flies before I can get my wing tying even approaching ok.

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

For me winging is the most difficult part of tying a salmon fly if it involves feathers, swearing at them doesn't help. Just remember to pinch them in your left finger and thumb on the hook really well and take a few loose wraps before really tightening down. It may take a few shots to get them right.

 

When i started i found this page and lesson quite handy, just scroll down to where he is preparing and mounting the wings.

 

http://www.ronnlucassr.com/lesson4.htm

 

Davie McPhail is a legend, he does make things look very easy which is frustrating but keep at it!

[Crackaig 0]

The fact that you have seen a video of it being done suggests it can be done. Don't give up.

 

I was told about and shown a different method by Paul Little. The valley Method. It is similar to the pinch and loop but has significant differences.

 

Pinch the wing on top of the hook shank immediately behind the tie in point. Pinch tight. The wing at that point must not move at all. Take a loose loop over the wing. Hold the butts of the wing forward of the tie in point. Work the butts up and down gently. The weight of your bobbin will bring the wing fibres down on top of one another. Once it is tight take another turn and do the same. After the wing is located do not put any thread wraps on top of the original ones holding the wing down.

 

Ted Patlen uses the same method but with a tool in place of the thread. The tool is a cylindrical weight with a 3 inch long wire loop. This is placed over the wing in the same way that the thread is used. Once it has tightened the wing down thread wraps are made, and the tool removed. Before you let go of your grip on the wing.

 

You need to be really careful how you trim the butts out as well. Paul used to use a razor blade and very carefully "saw" the butts off. However last time I saw him he had changed this method. He was using very fine iris type spring scissors (the kind used in eye surgery). He takes only one or two fibres with each cut. Trying to cut the whole wing is prone to making the wing roll.

 

Hope that helps though its probably as clear as mud.

Cheers,

C.

[DrVette 0]

Crackaig got the description pretty well right. It is important that your left thumb and forefinger are pinching the wing together right on the top of the hook then form a loose loop going around the wing which should be snugged down to the point the wing creates a hump like form in your left thumb and fingers...you should feel when it is going right as it pulls away from your fingers at the thread point very slightly, if too much pull away wing colapses and curls. Then take 2 more tight turns of thread to the right of that loop before letting go of the wing. They used a hard wax (cobbelers wax) on the heads long ago but i have read old books that say to use that wax on the loop for the wing to help hold the fibers in place and put the force more straight down. I have tried that but can't see or feel any difference but others say it helps them so you might concider it. The only place i have gotten that wax from is feathers mc but others should have it if they cater to classic tyers.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

ok I am no expert but this old hack might offer some help the reason your wings fell apart is probably you either weren't pinching hard enough you let go to early or your thread wraps went behind the tie in since the others touched on a few other points I will comment on the last reason. once you get your 2 wraps of thread on the wing and tightened down you need to be ver exacting in placing your thread wraps and not let any of them go behind them towards the bend of hook all the rest of your thread wraps must be placed exactly on top of or in front of them

[natedubay 0]

Do as I do... Don't tie that style of fly. My life is easier since I made that decision.

[DrVette 0]

Do as I do... Don't tie that style of fly. My life is easier since I made that decision.

 

I think i hear sage wisdom blowing in the wind....Too bad i am too stubborn to listen...

[flytire 0]

exactly as nate says

 

i have taken a class in tying salmon flies and that yielded exactly 2 flies

 

i personally dont need to add that genre of tying to my tying abilities. i am better off without it.

[utyer 0]

If you really want to learn to tie full dress, feather wing, Atlantic Salmon Flies, Check out the Classic Tying Forum. Bud Guidry has started a Mentoring Program that lists a number of expert tiers who are willing to guide one through the basic skills and techniques that are necessary in tying these highly complex patterns.

 

A simpler way to get started is to learn to tie the Classic Wet fly patterns of either Mary Orvis Marbury or Ray Bergman. Most of these patterns also use feather wings, many of them made of married strips of different colors. There are hundreds of examples tied by Don Bastian on the Hatches website. This link will take you to the Bergman Collection. Don also teaches classes in tying these classics.

 

You don't NEED to learn to tie with feathers, but the skills you develop in doing so, will help you in many other areas.

[Christopher K 0]

I think all the points have been made, one other thing I would suggest is to use a smaller thread, and if you continue with that, remember its only 3 wraps to attach a material, you must think of where each wrap will go.

[phishy 0]

Thanks everyone! So many tips and great advice, I'm definitely going to try this again. It's a little comforting to hear that I'm not just feather-dysfunctional, it sounds like it's actually a more difficult aspect to get right, so that is encouraging. It'll stop me from yelling at my fingers this time around lol.

 

With that first fly, once I realized things were going south and fast, I just wrapped and wrapped to try to get what I had left on, resulting in a really long head and a not so pretty fly, and I definitely wasn't aware of where my thread was going.

 

I'll give it another few go's and post a picture of the next one...Natedubay - I'll letchya know if I join your ranks.

[Peterjay 0]

You don't say how long you've been tying, but I'd guess it's a fairly short time. IMO, you might be getting ahead of yourself, which is gonna lead to a lot of frustration. It's probably a good idea to stick to simpler stuff until you've mastered the basics. Salmon flies can be tricky for experienced tyers - for beginners, they can be overwhelming. Simple featherwing trout patterns are a good way to practice. (using the excellent advice above) You also need to look at proportions - how long the hackle/wings/tails are compared to the hook size. Doing some simple hairwings can help you in that regard. If one of your goals is to do salmon flies, there's a lot to learn - just don't expect to learn it all at once. Take your time and have fun.

[mridenour 0]

If you get too frustrated tying these flies...tie a few scuds and you will feel like an awesome tyer again. Even if they get messed up they catch trout!

[phishy 0]

You're right Peterjay. I started tying when I started learning to fly fish, but at that time, I probably only tied three or four flies. I picked it up again two months ago, and I'm sooooo addicted, but I am definitely starting out. Thanks for the advice, it's probably a good idea to get the hang of working with more simpler steps first. The classic trout & salmon flies are sooo beautiful though, I can't help myself