Vise question

[FlaFly 0]

Utyer is right.... men used to drive to work in a horse drawn buggy, then a 1905 Ford flivver, then more modern cars... each one was an improvement. Same with vises, BUT if money is a consideration, be aware the jump price-wise from a fixed vise to a semi-rotational is not that much, but the next jump to full-rotational is a very large one. Before I sprung for a high-priced vise, I'd sure want to find some place where I could actually try one out.. maybe a fly tying symposium or something like that. And I'd have to be at the point where I could see that I would benefit from full-rotation.

[Goose77 0]

Good point, Flafly. Ed

[Gene L 0]

Utyer is right.... men used to drive to work in a horse drawn buggy, then a 1905 Ford flivver, then more modern cars... each one was an improvement. Same with vises, BUT if money is a consideration, be aware the jump price-wise from a fixed vise to a semi-rotational is not that much, but the next jump to full-rotational is a very large one. Before I sprung for a high-priced vise, I'd sure want to find some place where I could actually try one out.. maybe a fly tying symposium or something like that. And I'd have to be at the point where I could see that I would benefit from full-rotation.

 

The multiple vise try-out idea is a good one, but I'v never encountered such a thing. Every vise I've ever bought was kinda on speculation, informed by reading articles on them. There are constraints on vises dictated in part by the budget of the buyer. I've never seen an overpriced vise and most of them are pretty damned good. My early books by AK vest indicate a fixed vise, and if I had his skill, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

If anyone can post a disadvantge of a rotary (good quality) vise, I'd like to see it. I started tying before the rotary vise was invented, I think. I bought one as soon as I could afford one and it wasn't a true rotary, but a good vise. Held a hook great and let me look at the other side of the fly, important to tying for looks...not for catching fish, but for tying a great looking fly.

 

I would NOT buy one of those Indian made vises, although some have used them for years. Flyfishohio has a pretty good review on vises.

 

I repeat my other post; a rotary vise will hold a hook just as well as a fixed vise, if both are good ones. I can't see a disadvantage to a rotary vise, except maybe price. And, on the other hand, I don't see a helluva lot of advantages at my elementry skill level. So go for it whatever one chooses. It's possible to get a rotating (non-rotary) vise made in the USA for about $100 (Anvil Apex) and about $160 for a Renzetti Traveler. And you can go up or down from there.

 

A vise doesn't make a tier.

[mikechell 0]

"If anyone can post a disadvantge of a rotary (good quality) vise, I'd like to see it."

 

Price. There's really no other disadvantage, I'll agree.

 

One has to recognize that $100.00 is a lot of money to many of us.

I, for one, would hate to see people NOT start tying just because they're told cheaper vises are worthless.

I tied for decades on my first vise. It's the same vice sold as a "Supreme" for $30.00 from BPS. (I got it before I knew what BPS was).

I get most of my materials from Dollar Tree, Walmart and Michael's. Cheap is how I get by, and it works just fine for the majority of us.

[Crackaig 0]

From a slightly different angle. Employing an engineer is expensive, as are quality materials. A rotary vice takes a lot more work to make than a more basic one. If you have a fixed budget, then you will get better quality materials out of a basic vice than a true rotary one for the given budget. Low quality vices will frustrate you no end. There is the real handicap.

 

What I have been working on for the last few years is a design for a modular vice. One that can grow into what the tier needs. The idea is that the beginner will buy a head, stem and clamp (and or base if you must). If your tying requires a rotating vice there will be a a rotating head that can be added to the basic set up. Need true rotary, then there will be a rotating barrel to add to the top of the shaft. At home you may use the full set up, but when travelling you can strip it down to the basics. This means there will not be the trail of "old" vices littering someone's development as a tier. One day it may go into production. I was asked to work on a design by a vice maker, so it is not as remote a possibility as it may seam.

 

Cheers,

C.

[Gene L 0]

"If anyone can post a disadvantge of a rotary (good quality) vise, I'd like to see it."

 

Price. There's really no other disadvantage, I'll agree.

 

One has to recognize that $100.00 is a lot of money to many of us.

I, for one, would hate to see people NOT start tying just because they're told cheaper vises are worthless.

I tied for decades on my first vise. It's the same vice sold as a "Supreme" for $30.00 from BPS. (I got it before I knew what BPS was).

I get most of my materials from Dollar Tree, Walmart and Michael's. Cheap is how I get by, and it works just fine for the majority of us.

 

I recognize a hundred dollars is a lot of money, but it's not a lot of money for a vise. Sure, you can get a $40 Indian vise that's a copy of a Regal, but the company that makes them saves the money somewhere so they can sell it at 1/3 the price of the American made vise. They're just not the same quality. I doubt they will last in the long run.

 

I'm more familiar with cheap handguns but the same applies. For around $100, you can get a cheap Raven or a Lorcin, but you've got an unriable pistol that won't last. So $100 is not a lot of money for a gun, either...not nearly enough, I should say.

 

All of us have bought stuff from Michaels and Hobby Lobby, but the flies you tie with them have to be necessarily limited by the material. There is no way you'll be able to tie, say, an Adams from Michaels. I've never seen any hackle there. They have wool rovers, which work for dubbing, but dubbing is pretty cheap when it's made for fly tying. It's no way IMO to learn fly tying. Which I think the OP pointed at.

[crazy4oldcars 0]

Ran,

I've been tying on a true rotary vise for about 6 years, and only use the rotary about 5% of the time, if that. I learned on a fixed head and never broke the habits. There are those out there who have, and use it very, very effectively.

There are a few techniques that are easier on a rotary, but they are still possible without it.

Of course, that doesn't address the "New Stuff" urge that lies within us all.

Do you *need* rotary? Not really.

Do you want it? Probably.

Now the real fun begins.

 

Which one?

 

Kirk B. <<looking for the duck and run emoticon....

[crazy4oldcars 0]

If you really need to see the other side of the fly just rotate the stem of your vise

 

How bad did you muck up the other side anyway?

 

I was tying EP baitfish, and wasn't checking the other side. My side looked great. Ok, it looked good to me. The other side? Not so much.

 

Oh, and I was tying on my Danvise at the time!

 

Kirk B.

[Dave G. 0]

Listen guys, if you don't mind re-centering the hook for true rotation, go with an inline type rotating vise, and assuming you want to save a few bucks over the big dollar, so called, true rotary vises. Or even if you just want some rotation but aren't into full time rotating on a vise. One like the Apex is awesome ( I've used one , it's a great very smooth turning vise) and even the Indian vises with the brass head can do this, I've done that too, not so smooth but they will do it by moving the head horizontal... Goduster here at the forum sells the Apex for $79. That difference from $100, never mind down from the cost of a true rotary vise, might mean you get a really good quality vise normally in the $100 price range. Just saying.

[SilverCreek 0]

For a low cost rrue rotary vise, consider the E-Z Rotary Vise from Hook & Hackle. Price is $64.95 for the pedestal model, 54.95 for the C clamp model, and the bobbin holder is $10.76. Made in Pakistan.

 

http://store.hookhack.com/E-Z-Rotary-Vises/products/229/

 

Here are a couple of reviews.

 

http://www.flyfishohio.com/Vise%20Review%201/zephr_ez_rotary_vise.htm

http://hubpages.com/sports/Zephy-EZ-Rotary-Vise-For-Tying-Flies

 

 

 

[Dave G. 0]

One thing about the EZ vise, if the jaws wear out you can buy replacement jaws for $8.

[artimus001 0]

Listen guys, if you don't mind re-centering the hook for true rotation, go with an inline type rotating vise, and assuming you want to save a few bucks over the big dollar, so called, true rotary vises. Or even if you just want some rotation but aren't into full time rotating on a vise. One like the Apex is awesome ( I've used one , it's a great very smooth turning vise) and even the Indian vises with the brass head can do this, I've done that too, not so smooth but they will do it by moving the head horizontal... Goduster here at the forum sells the Apex for $79. That difference from $100, never mind down from the cost of a true rotary vise, might mean you get a really good quality vise normally in the $100 price range. Just saying.

my Indian Regal knock-off is giving up the ghost. smaller hooks are starting to slip. it has done a fair job up to this point.

 

if i was south of the border, i would have already ordered an Apex vise from Goduster. damn currency exchange......

[Dave G. 0]

 

Listen guys, if you don't mind re-centering the hook for true rotation, go with an inline type rotating vise, and assuming you want to save a few bucks over the big dollar, so called, true rotary vises. Or even if you just want some rotation but aren't into full time rotating on a vise. One like the Apex is awesome ( I've used one , it's a great very smooth turning vise) and even the Indian vises with the brass head can do this, I've done that too, not so smooth but they will do it by moving the head horizontal... Goduster here at the forum sells the Apex for $79. That difference from $100, never mind down from the cost of a true rotary vise, might mean you get a really good quality vise normally in the $100 price range. Just saying.

my Indian Regal knock-off is giving up the ghost. smaller hooks are starting to slip. it has done a fair job up to this point.

 

if i was south of the border, i would have already ordered an Apex vise from Goduster. damn currency exchange......

 

I hear this quite a bit in forums. I also belong to a piano forum and people from Canada look to US pricing. But some actually make out with a local dealer up there. When I belonged to photography forums it was the same thing there. Ya know when I first joined the photo forums, UK pricing was way lower than ours because of the exchange rate, not so anymore ! We still buy photo gear here in the US LOL ! Our buck isn't what it used to be either.

 

If your " Indian Regal knock off" has been a good vise, what's the chances of acquiring a new jaw set ?

[rstaight 0]

The disadvantage to a true rotary vise is in tying dries and small flies. The back end simply gets in the way, at least for me. If you like grab the vise like I do when applying material to small flies it gets in the way.

 

However, I would not be with out my rotary for nymphs and streamers. I crank the handle as much as wrapping.

[epzamora 0]

There's a lot of good points in the discussion re: fixed vs rotary vs true rotary vises. Randy, the original poster of this thread, was having trouble tying small flies. He has started after retiring and he is new to tying.

 

we should have asked him, What kind of small flies are you tying and what kind of issues are you struggling with in this new venture?

 

tying small flies can be difficult at any age. but if retired, perhaps he is suffering with sight issues. or hand-eye coordination. do hands tremble? are hand/finger muscles not used to working with small items like flies? and what size and patterns of small flies is Randy trying to tie which are proving difficult. i'm 49 and even i have issues with eye sight and hand control, too many years gripping heavy pro level (and weight) cameras.

 

i think being new, it may be a case of practice. small things like magnification might help. vise design, being able to brace and hand (or not) might be an issue or solution. perhaps Rand is trying to tie complicated patterns, easier patterns might be best at this stage. i do not think rotary versions vs fixed is necessarily the issue to be addressed. but having a true rotary may be an itch that needs to be scratched in the end, just because!

 

Randy, what do you think of everything that's been posted so far?

 

eric

fresno, ca.