Gut substitute

[tetraodontoxin 0]

Hey all, i got some new materials and got to pick up some blind eye hooks, already have some patterns picked out. But before I tie on the blind hooks I need to attach a gut loop to it. Seeing how its hard to get a hold of I looked for alternatives and ran across an article about using tippet mono line, so the first step was what they called etching. place a length of line in a small container, I used a small candle jar. Then put a small pool of super glue in the container and seal it for a day. That worked well as it turned the mono into a better color. Plus the line became less stiff, but seamed to retain its strength. After a day in the jar, the next step was to polish the line, they mentioned using wax, I just held the line against a block of bees wax and pulled several times. Then cut three length of line, knotted one end, clamped both ends in clamps. Next is to set the twist, they call for two pans of water, one iced and one boiling. I just used the sink cold water. Twist the line, submerge in water for 10-20 seconds then I held the line under the running water for a couple minutes. The right angle bend you see was due to me using a sauce pan the full length of line when pulled taught, so I submerged for the same amount of time and pulled the line taught before going under the water. This was my second attempt at getting the gut on the hook, think I need a little more practice but not a horrible job. I do not know how real gut ties like, but this wasnt a horrible process and I can reuse the class jar to etch more line. 

[Noahguide 0]

Very cool.  A while back when I was considering a similar venture (which I did not pursue) I came across this from Davie McPhail.  Perhaps another alternative for you?

Good luck and looking forward to seeing how you progress.

 

[niveker 0]

Interesting, both methods.  So the vapors from super glue 'pit' or etch the surface of the mono?  What is the purpose of that, to allow it to be gripped by the thread onto the shank?   That's why Davie runs his mono through a sheet of fine sandpaper?

[Mark Knapp 0]

I'm going to apologize for this in advance.

I have a friend who lost most of his small intestines from some disease, the doctors were able to replace it with a few yards of pig intestine, so there is that. 😁 😀 Now when he passes gas, it sounds like a pig squeal.

Carry on with your regularly scheduled program, I'll be quiet now.

[tetraodontoxin 0]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:06 PM, Noahguide said:

Very cool.  A while back when I was considering a similar venture (which I did not pursue) I came across this from Davie McPhail.  Perhaps another alternative for you?

Good luck and looking forward to seeing how you progress.

 

Noahguide, on one note, my son is Noah! Thanks for posting that video, it’s neat to see different methods. I’ve seen those rope machines used when I was building scale models. I just twisted mine between two clamps and that worked well. 

[tetraodontoxin 0]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:08 AM, niveker said:

Interesting, both methods.  So the vapors from super glue 'pit' or etch the surface of the mono?  What is the purpose of that, to allow it to be gripped by the thread onto the shank?   That's why Davie runs his mono through a sheet of fine sandpaper?

The mono is mostly clear, and after it gains a frosted like appearance. The vapors put out by curing superglue etches clear parts. I built scale models for years and dealt with many canopies fog up. I’m sure it helps aid in grip, but I think it’s more appearance. Could be wrong I haven’t worked actual gut before.

On 4/8/2021 at 4:20 PM, Mark Knapp said:

I'm going to apologize for this in advance.

I have a friend who lost most of his small intestines from some disease, the doctors were able to replace it with a few yards of pig intestine, so there is that. 😁 😀 Now when he passes gas, it sounds like a pig squeal.

Carry on with your regularly scheduled program, I'll be quiet now.

Mark that’s pretty funny, hope your friend doesn’t pass gas near hog farms too often!

[Mark Knapp 0]

On 4/10/2021 at 4:32 PM, tetraodontoxin said:

The mono is mostly clear, and after it gains a frosted like appearance. The vapors put out by curing superglue etches clear parts. I built scale models for years and dealt with many canopies fog up. I’m sure it helps aid in grip, but I think it’s more appearance. Could be wrong I haven’t worked actual gut before.

Mark that’s pretty funny, hope your friend doesn’t pass gas near hog farms too often!

I was wondering if anybody thought it was funny, I was left hanging there for a while. Fly tiers are pretty sophisticated folk. My wives family is always up for a good butt or fart joke but they're not fly tiers.

[SilverCreek 0]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:42 PM, tetraodontoxin said:

Hey all, i got some new materials and got to pick up some blind eye hooks, already have some patterns picked out. But before I tie on the blind hooks I need to attach a gut loop to it. Seeing how its hard to get a hold of I looked for alternatives and ran across an article about using tippet mono line, so the first step was what they called etching. place a length of line in a small container, I used a small candle jar. Then put a small pool of super glue in the container and seal it for a day. That worked well as it turned the mono into a better color. Plus the line became less stiff, but seemed to retain its strength.

I want to correct a misconception.

To my knowledge superglue does not etch anything. Etching is what an acid does - removes part of the surface.

Super glue does the opposite. It forms fumes which are deposited on the surface. That is good news because etching would weaken the line, depositing superglue on the surface would not.

Have you seen the crime shows where fumed super glue brings out latent fingerprints by being fumed and reacting with invisible fingerprints on surfaces?

Similarly, I'm sure what is happening is that super glue is vaporizing and depositing on the line that was sealed with the superglue in the jar.

https://www.airscience.com/briefs/briefnum/42/cyanoacrylate-fuming-method

"These fumes will react with the traces of amino acids, fatty acids and proteins in the latent fingerprint and the moisture in the air to produce a visible, sticky white material that forms along the ridges of the fingerprint."

Gut is protein and would bond with superglue. Handling the line prior to fuming also transfered reactive material to the line.

[SalarMan 0]

Interesting point about the super glue, but that has nothing to do with use of real gut simply because real gut needs none of the above processes that are required to make an artificial replica in order to tie Classic Atlantic Salmon Flies for show purposes...NOT FISHNG flies.

Real gut need only be soaked in water for a few hours or more, then use the twister McPhail demonstrates and voila!!  I use the Japanese silk gut manufactured after WWII, and all that stuff requires is 10 to 15 minutes in warm water, put the desired number of strands in a cordless drill chuck, the other end in the jaws of your vise with equal tension on all strands,  then slowly twist the strands to get the desired look followed by letting this dry for a few hours or over night. When tied in place you can't tell it from the real thing. However it is NOT  suitable for fishing. Japanese gut eye pictured below.

As the old saying goes...there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Bruce Derington 0]

On 4/8/2021 at 4:20 PM, Mark Knapp said:

I'm going to apologize for this in advance.

I have a friend who lost most of his small intestines from some disease, the doctors were able to replace it with a few yards of pig intestine, so there is that. 😁 😀 Now when he passes gas, it sounds like a pig squeal.

Carry on with your regularly scheduled program, I'll be quiet now.

That indexing looks familiar to me 

[Mark Knapp 0]

2 hours ago, Bruce Derington said:

That indexing looks familiar to me 

I'm sorry, that went right over my head.

[Bruce Derington 0]

23 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

I'm sorry, that went right over my head.

One of the Classic guys has a gauge to mark off certain points on the hook

[SalarMan 0]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:26 PM, Bruce Derington said:

That indexing looks familiar to me 

Location of the end of the body/beginning/end of throat and start of the head.

[Mark Knapp 0]

14 hours ago, Bruce Derington said:

One of the Classic guys has a gauge to mark off certain points on the hook

Oh, I was confused cuz you quoted my intestine joke when you made the comment. Carry on.

[tetraodontoxin 0]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:40 PM, SilverCreek said:

I want to correct a misconception.

To my knowledge superglue does not etch anything. Etching is what an acid does - removes part of the surface.

Super glue does the opposite. It forms fumes which are deposited on the surface. That is good news because etching would weaken the line, depositing superglue on the surface would not.

Have you seen the crime shows where fumed super glue brings out latent fingerprints by being fumed and reacting with invisible fingerprints on surfaces?

Similarly, I'm sure what is happening is that super glue is vaporizing and depositing on the line that was sealed with the superglue in the jar.

https://www.airscience.com/briefs/briefnum/42/cyanoacrylate-fuming-method

"These fumes will react with the traces of amino acids, fatty acids and proteins in the latent fingerprint and the moisture in the air to produce a visible, sticky white material that forms along the ridges of the fingerprint."

Gut is protein and would bond with superglue. Handling the line prior to fuming also transfered reactive material to the line.

It was referred to as etching by an article I read, I know the main ingredient of super glue is an acid, not sure what they fumes would be considered. I do know their tendency to seek out oil and moisture and cling to it, the worst part of attaching a mode canopy is seeing a finger print appear inside. I did more line the same way, I can scrap off some white dusting, but I can’t restore the original surface. Either way, it seams to work for learning. I kinda want to do an experiment with cleaning the line prior to sealing in with glue and see if that has an effect.