Rusty Shackleford 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 I want to tie some Orange and Partridge soft hackles in # 14 and 16 and I am wondering if the silk thread I have will make a sufficient body or if I need floss to get that translucent color change? Nearly every video I've watched about tying them shows the tiers using thread for the bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarrellP 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 Traditionally it was silk thread bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWKimba 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 Silk THREAD was the tradition AND it will hold up a bit better than floss with it's individual fibers. If you do use floss there is a trick to help keep it from "fuzzing out" from the fishes teeth - simply make sure that when you first lock-down the tying floss use a longer tag end then bring it up over your tied body as a shellback. Also, the biggest thing in tying the "and" type soft hackles is not whether use use thread or floss BUT that you use silk. The color of silk reacts differently in water than Uni-Stretch, rayon or other substitute and I tend to find more fish IN the water Hope this helps. Kim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rusty Shackleford 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, WWKimba said: Silk THREAD was the tradition AND it will hold up a bit better than floss with it's individual fibers. If you do use floss there is a trick to help keep it from "fuzzing out" from the fishes teeth - simply make sure that when you first lock-down the tying floss use a longer tag end then bring it up over your tied body as a shellback. Also, the biggest thing in tying the "and" type soft hackles is not whether use use thread or floss BUT that you use silk. The color of silk reacts differently in water than Uni-Stretch, rayon or other substitute and I tend to find more fish IN the water Hope this helps. Kim Informative as always, thank you very much Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 You want gold 6a though some people prefer the hot orange. This is as close as you are going to get to the classic traditional silks. If this is something you’d like to do the colors of purple,primrose and gold or hot orange would be a good foundation. https://morus-silk.com/silk-for-tying-flies/?v=79cba1185463 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 P & 0 sz 14 Partridge Captain Hamilton. * a little ice dub thorax was added which is not part of the original dressing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 i dont tie for tradition or museums, i just use tying thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said: I am wondering if the silk thread I have will make a sufficient body That begs the question: What silk thread do you have? And, what do you mean by 'sufficient body'? Do you mean building bulk? Traditional soft hackles are typically slim, often using just 1-2 layers of thread, sometimes with a thorax, as in @Moshup's beauty above. As @flytire says, you can use any thread or floss for soft hackles, but traditionally, silk is used. Silk has a few attributes which differentiate it from other types of thread in the course of tying and fishing flies. One of them is a certain translucency when wet, which better imitates a natural, in the opinion of most tyers. Whether that makes a difference to trout all the time, who knows, but it certainly makes a difference to alot of tyers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rusty Shackleford 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 1 hour ago, niveker said: That begs the question: What silk thread do you have? And, what do you mean by 'sufficient body'? Do you mean building bulk? Traditional soft hackles are typically slim, often using just 1-2 layers of thread, sometimes with a thorax, as in @Moshup's beauty above. As @flytire says, you can use any thread or floss for soft hackles, but traditionally, silk is used. Silk has a few attributes which differentiate it from other types of thread in the course of tying and fishing flies. One of them is a certain translucency when wet, which better imitates a natural, in the opinion of most tyers. Whether that makes a difference to trout all the time, who knows, but it certainly makes a difference to alot of tyers. I have Ephemera #625 and #633 and bu sufficient I just meant everything it's supposed to be and it sounds like what I have is just the thing, here is one I tied up last night with #625 which appears to be a pretty close match to the highly sought after 6A color. I realize the hackle is a bit thicker than traditional but I've never bothered stripping half of the partridge feather for any of my soft hackles and still caught plenty of fish. I will pprobably do some in the classic style as well though, just to try it out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocco 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 A light coat of hardened Loon clear finish protects my soft hackle tying thread bodies from teeth and fading, and does not yellow over time. Non- traditional to be sure but the trout don't see to mind at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said: here is one I tied up last night NIce fly RS. I prefer heavier dressed soft hackles for fast water. For future reference: here is a visual comparison of the thicknesses of different silk thread brands posted by @Old Hat last year on this forum. Quote From left to right in Primose shade....Kimono 100. YLI 100. Ephemera. Pearsall. These are wet http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?/topic/91553-pearsall-and-langley-gone-but-others/&do=findComment&comment=774948 Here is a table I put together to compare/match colors for Kimono 100 and YLI silk with Pearsall's. Vintage Pearsall YLI Kimono 100 2 Straw 213 Pale Yellow ? 3 Primrose 261 Buttercup 213 Pale Yellow 301 Ichiban 4 Yellow 214 Daffodil Yellow ? 5 Lemon Yellow ? ? 6 Amber ? ? 6A Gold 231 Bright Apricot #304 Golden Pavilion 6B Sherry Spinner ? 370 Teriyaki 7 Blue 208 Ocean Blue 8 Purple 244 Eggplant 330 Purple Susan 329 Emperor (purple) 9A Gray 232 Light Blue Grey 377 Ginza 10 Ash 242 Pinky Brown 367 Meiji 11 Golden Olive 214 Dull Gold 11A Scarlet 210 Bright Red 319 Hezza 318 Geishe (red, scarlet) 12 Cardinal 321 Tokyo Rose 13 Crimson 14 Claret 258 Dark Purple 322 Raspberry Truffle 15 Dark Claret 276 Burgundy 248 Magenta 16 Olive 218 17 Brown 234 Chocolate 372 Hibachi 18 Highland Green 222 Bright Green 351 Midori 19 Hot Orange 216 Bright Orange 317 Orenji 20 Light Olive 353 Wasabi 30 Java Brown 368 Mt. Fuji The info in this table was taken from a older post here, again by @Old Hat, and from the WiFlyFisher website. See following links for original posts and images. http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?/topic/91553-pearsall-and-langley-gone-but-others/&do=findComment&comment=774950 https://wiflyfisher.com/YLI-Silk-Thread-Review.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 Where’s Old Hat when you need him? Exceptional tyer. Nice fly Rusty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richmce 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2021 moshup, do you check your private messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWKimba 0 Report post Posted May 2, 2021 On 5/1/2021 at 10:34 AM, Rocco said: A light coat of hardened Loon clear finish protects my soft hackle tying thread bodies from teeth and fading, and does not yellow over time. Non- traditional to be sure but the trout don't see to mind at all. If using most threads/floss this is OK, but if using silk it keeps the water from affecting the color change that occurs when certain color silks get wet and therefore changes the pattern. Kim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites