Swap mailing recommendations. Now Unlocked. Please read my last post

[DarrellP 0]

I recommend everyone just send $5 for postage and a self addressed envelope.  I have found the USPS more or less requires you mail them at the counter due to thickness.  If you buy postage at that time, it just seems easier.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

I hate that it makes the process more cumbersome for Swapmeisters, but, given the USPS's current hangup about how and when and by whom return postage is purchased/applied, I think your idea is probably the best solution. I'm on board with this change. 

[vicrider 0]

I'm not on board with this. It is a PITA not to just have self-addressed envelopes ready to go. Puts way to much burden on Swapmeister this way. As long as you use stamps in right amount it's not going to be a problem and if it is I would talk to the Postal Boss and get things squared away at your local office.

Bryon, have you done any swaps? I know you're active with us but unless you run the swaps you don't know all the little things we have to put up with on every swap.

Nick, AKA Swap section Mod

[Bryon Anderson 0]

5 minutes ago, vicrider said:

I'm not on board with this. It is a PITA not to just have self-addressed envelopes ready to go. Puts way to much burden on Swapmeister this way. As long as you use stamps in right amount it's not going to be a problem and if it is I would talk to the Postal Boss and get things squared away at your local office.

Bryon, have you done any swaps? I know you're active with us but unless you run the swaps you don't know all the little things we have to put up with on every swap.

Nick, AKA Swap section Mod

Nick, I have hosted 7 swaps myself, so I am aware of what all being a swapmeister entails. That being said, I do take your point about the extra work for SMs that Darrell's proposed method would cause (see the first line of my previous post.) 

I think you're probably right when you say that, as long as the postage is attached to the SAE and the SAE is then safely sealed in the bigger envelope, and the big envelope containing the SASE is then taken to the PO to have postage applied, that should work too. If more people are in favor of doing it that way, I'm fine with that, too.

[vicrider 0]

Then you do know the extra PITA this would be Bryon. For me, I have become a big advocate for Pirateship.com and would print all my own labels if done this way with money enclosed. Considering the cost of postage today I don't think anybody should have to include more postage than it would cost to buy the stamps. I just sent a package in a bubble mailer that would have cost 6.12 from PO and was $4 .81 with Pirateship. 

Nick

[niveker 0]

Disclaimer: I've never hosted a swap, I would like to eventually, so take this FWIW.  Additionally, I'm not the perfect swap participant.  I have been late with my flies, I have even sent a set of flies to the wrong swapmeister.  But I have always tried to make good on my mistakes and at the same time alleviate, as best I could, the onus on those who had to correct  them.  

But speaking as a participant in one or two swaps, I would not join a swap with the requirements DarrellP suggests.   

#1. I save a significant amount of money using pirateship in the swaps.  I spent $20 on a digital postage scale less than 2 years ago, and have saved more that twice that amount in postage using pirateship.  

#2. Using  pirateship is infinitely more convenient than visiting the PO. With pirateship, it takes one trip to my mailbox at the end of my driveway to send flies, and one trip to pick up the returns.  Done.  No more explaining things 2 or 3 times to the morons at the post office, then waiting for them to correct their mistakes. 

#3.  Anyone can learn to use pirateship, or not. I don't care.  Just don't force me not to use it because a USPS employee has no clue,  or another swap participant cannot follow a few simple guidelines.  Including a pre-paid, (charged when used/scanned) return address label is very common in our mail order world of today, regardless of what the Einstein's at the USPS may tell you.

#4. I have never been a swapmeister, but if and when that day comes, and a participant did not send a properly addressed and postaged SASE, it would sit on my tying desk until they did.  The persons not following the rules should be inconvenienced, not those that do.  I am so sick and tired of the 'reduce everything to the lowest common denominator' attitude.  

#5. Yes, I had a really shitty day today.  

#6.  IMHO

[vicrider 0]

A good rant nivecker but I'd go with one exception to it. #4 It is one thing to penalize a person messing up a bit but you'd also penalize the people waiting on ALL the flies, including his. If someone has a reason to do something wrong once in a while and has been good in swaps overall we work around that. Maybe to get the flies in on time someone has to send them to PO with someone not understanding our procedure (I do this with wife and kid all the time) and the include return postage this one time. What I want to stress is not the once in awhile type of thing but a whole group of flies and envelopes you have take to to PO and go though them since no one has an SASE. Not something I'd want and if it suddenly became acceptable to do this it would end my hosting though not my participation.

#5. Happens to us all and no reason to be a swapmeister on that day. Just let them set until tomorrow.

#1-3. 100% with you on Pirateship.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

I'll venture another suggestion here: one way to go about this would be to simply make it Swapmeister's choice -- if the SM would prefer to just receive a SAE and money to cover return postage and they're willing to do the extra work that entails, then they can request that procedure in the swap instructions. If they prefer to receive the traditional SASE (postage pre-applied and ready to mail), they can request that. 

That seems to me like it would be the easiest and most fair arrangement. 

[Squeezy 0]

14 hours ago, niveker said:

#4. I have never been a swapmeister, but if and when that day comes, and a participant did not send a properly addressed and postaged SASE, it would sit on my tying desk until they did.  The persons not following the rules should be inconvenienced, not those that do.  I am so sick and tired of the 'reduce everything to the lowest common denominator' attitude.  

#5. Yes, I had a really shitty day today.  

 

Thanks for that niveker!  I had no clue about what a SASE was before my first swap.  I was that guy, holding up the line and trying to convince the USPS worker that I can do this - my "buddies" do it... Needless to say, I got it figured out.  It's a rule - follow it.

#5 - This too shall pass, as my Mother says.

[flytire 0]

c'mon guys

in all of the years and with all of the swaps on this forum, why are we now having a postage issue?

Swapmeisters and Swappers - READ - Fly Swaps & Contests - Fly Tying (flytyingforum.com)

the items below are from the rules link above

Fly Swapper Duties

6. Swappers must include a self-addressed stamped envelope that is strong enough and big enough for the fly box/container you send in and will receive back. Include postage on your return envelope in the form of stamps. Insert you fly box/container in the self-addressed return envelope (do not seal it at this time) and ask the postmaster for postage from the swapmeisters zip code. Buy and affix the correct number of stamps to the return envelope. Now you can insert that envelope into the larger mailing envelope and get the postmaster to get you the final postage. 

Generally, it is not the swapmeisters duty to buy a return envelope, pay your return postage nor should the swapmeister have to buy and affix stamps to your self addressed return envelope at the post office. The swapmeister manages the swap not the postage unless you are directed by the swapmeister to do otherwise.

Domestic Mailing Within the United States

 

 

Mailing for a fly swap will require two envelopes, one envelope is the self-addressed stamped envelope (SASE) that will be your return back to you and the second is the mailing envelope to the swapmeister.

 

1. The envelopes - 5x9 inch or 6x9 inch - this will be your return envelope; 8 1/2x11 - this will be your sending envelope. Bubble mailers are okay for envelopes.

 

2. Properly address both envelopes

 

3. Insert your fly box into your return envelope but DO NOT SEAL the envelope.

 

4. Affix enough stamps to your return envelope. As of 02-2023 the price for a Forever stamp is 63 cents. 8 or 9 stamps will usually cover the return postage. An alternative is to have the postmaster weigh your return envelope (with the fly box inside) and calculate the amount of postage from the swapmeisters address and zip code and purchase that amount of stamps to affix to your return envelope. DO NOT BUY A METERED STAMP. It is only good for the day you buy it. Your return envelope will be returned to you in about a month and the postage will no longer be valid.

 

5. Insert your stamped and unsealed envelope along with your swap fly box into the swapmeisters envelope and seal that envelope. The postmaster will weigh that envelope and affix postage to it.

 

6. Postage option - There are multiple mailing/shipping services available. One service is called Pirate Ship and another is Stamps.com. There may be others, but choose the one that works best for you. Please visit the links provided to learn of their services and what may be required to purchase.

 

[flytire 0]

the items in red should cover using mailing services other than the USPS and to allow the swapmeister to direct swappers to send cash with their swap flies

[Bryon Anderson 0]

32 minutes ago, flytire said:

c'mon guys

in all of the years and with all of the swaps on this forum, why are we now having a postage issue?

Insert you fly box/container in the self-addressed return envelope (do not seal it at this time) and ask the postmaster for postage from the swapmeisters zip code. Buy and affix the correct number of stamps to the return envelope. Now you can insert that envelope into the larger mailing envelope and get the postmaster to get you the final postage. 

 

This all started when I tried to do exactly what is outlined above (as I've been doing without issue for many years), and the USPS employee working the desk at my local office refused to let me. She was adamant that I could not purchase the return postage; according to her, it had to be purchased by the SM on the other end, in person, at a USPS office, in the presence of USPS personnel. I tried explaining to her that I'd been doing it this way for years, and she wasn't having it and got pretty testy with me. 

My plan going forward is to do as you have recommended, Flytire, and purchase enough "Forever" stamps to cover return postage and affix them to my return envelope prior to sealing it inside the larger envelope if I want to use USPS. Or, I might simply try Pirateship, as so many here have recommended. 

I just want to be clear that I am not trying to start some sort of revolution or throw a wrench in the way we do swaps. 

[chugbug27 0]

I was recently in a swap where there were no containers, only small, regular envelopes with one forever stamp each way and a plastic baggie inside to hold the flies. It worked out fine and was delightful.

[flytire 0]

bryon

is there another local post office in your area?

maybe they have a nicer understanding postmaster. 😄

i wonder if your postmaster was referring to "metered stamp" rather than forever or other denomination of stamps

i but 10 $1 stamp and use them + a forever stamp or two

i have 4 post offices in my local area

just for shits and giggles, i created an account at pirate ship, bought a postal scale and will try them out in the next swap i'm in

[flytire 0]

12 minutes ago, chugbug27 said:

I was recently in a swap where there were no containers, only small, regular envelopes with one forever stamp each way and a plastic baggie inside to hold the flies. It worked out fine and was delightful.

kind hard to get all of these in a small envelope