Tippet question

[Fish For Life 0]

Is there a difference of buying a spool of tippet made for fly fishing, vs buying say a quality spool of fine flour carbon and for conventional fishing? My dad asks me this questions every time i go to buy tippet from a fly shop and im left there having no clue what to say. Which got me thinking if there really is a difference. I know that tippet is very fine, but if you can find a spool of fluorocarbon would this not work just as well. And i know that tippet is measured in X and so on, but is it really that important to get the right leader and tippet based on X. Would not just lining up the two with the same lb test work as well. And if getting the tippet X is all that important could you just not measure it yourself with a caliper? Im not 100% sure of what X means, but im pretty sure it is calculated based on its width, right?

 

Thanks

[mikechell 0]

My opinion:

If you're planning on trophy hunting ... then you need to buy tippet line. This is so you can claim a certain line weight for your catch.

If you're buying line for your own use as tippet material ... then buy fishing line. It is very possible, if you are using super light test lines, that you can't find a spool of fishing line in the same test ... but for average uses, it's available.

 

Or you can spend more and get the cute little spools so they look cool on your lanyard.

 

If you're anything like me ... I buy fishing line in 150 or 300 yard spools. I don't use leaders and tippet ... I use one piece of mono from fly line to fly.

[phg 0]

This is a question that comes up rather often. The manufacturer's answer is that tippet material is specifically formulated to be more limp, and manufactured to be more uniform in diameter and strength. This extra quality control comes with a cost.

 

For years, I just used inexpensive fishing mono for my leaders. It works fine for most situations. Of late, though, I'm purchasing spools of tippet. They are easier to use and the material does seem to be more supple. If money is tight, don't feel bad about saving a few $$.

 

Tippet does follow a standard sizing. Each X stands for .001", with each higher number being one .001" smaller. There are charts online for this, if you google for them. Basically, though 1x is .010", 2x is .009", 3x is .008", etc.

[SilverCreek 0]

There is a rule of thumb in equipment that says the further you get from the end of the cast, the less important the equipment is. OK, so I made up that rule but I think it is a good one. Fly -> leader -> fly line -> fly rod -> reel -> vest, wader, etc. The single exception is the skill of the fly fisher.

The weakest link that connects us to the fish is the tippet. It is not where I would choose to save a buck but everyone decides for themselves.

There are several issues here if you decide that regular fishing line is the equal of tippet material.

The first is the obvious Strength per Diameter issue and tippets win over line both for fluorocarbon and nylon mono.

This is not just a theoretical advantage in fluorocarbon that is used mainly underwater. A thinner tippet has less surface area that is proportional to the square of the diameter. So not only will a thinner tippet sink faster but it will have less drag through the water to pull on the fly. So visibility is not the only issue. Thinner tippets reduce drag.

The second, less obvious reason to buy the tippet, is suppleness. In most instances tippet should be supple because they are on the end of leaders and suppleness is the ability that allows flies to move more freely. A stiff tippet of the same diameter as a supple tippet will tend to straighten rather than to fall with slack. Slack allows a drag free drift.

The key problem with any approach in fly fishing and this is especially true in nymphing is that we often do not know for certain why a fish refuses the fly. When fishing a dry fly we can sometimes guess at the possible reasons because we SEE the refusal, BUT when nymphing we do not even know a fish refused the fly at the last instant. The refusal occurs underwater.

So we may be getting a lot of lookers but no takers. What can we do to improve our odds when we can't even determine the causes of a refusal?

My approach has been to eliminate or reduce the possible reasons for a refusal. That is why I use tippet material for both nymphing and dry fly fishing rather than regular fishing line.

There is a functional (diameter vs strength vs suppleness) difference between regular fishing line and tippet material. Can a few thousandths of an inch or even one-thousandth of an inch in diameter make a difference in drift, sink rate, and visibility? Even if it does, does it make a difference to the fish? The next step is that you must decide for yourself whether the type of fishing you do needs tippet or line material.

I cannot tell you what is best for you. You must decide that. For the locations I fish, my decision has been to use the strongest, thinnest, and most supple tippet I can find.

[Piker20 0]

I'm not sure what the US market is like, but here in UK you can find lots of line; mono, fluro and copolymer that is on 100m spools sold for match anglers. These are very fine and you can find pre stretched lines too. Buying a spool labelled 'Fly fishing' in UK is a waste of money; unless you like the convenience of small spools and clipping them together.

[SilverCreek 0]

When I have compared the diameter and strength of standard fishiing line and compare it to tippets, the tippets are significantly stronger. P Line fluorocarbon is recommended by some as a substitute for fluorcarbon tippet.

 

The 6 lb test Pline is 3X = 0.008"

Now compare with the 3X tippets that are 50% stronger for the same diameter.

P line is one of the thinner and stronger fluorocarbon fishing lines. Just in case you think I have “cherry picked” a weak Flourcarbon, here are some others.

Yozuri 6 lb test Fluorocarbon is 0.010 inches = 1X

Maxima 6 lb test fluorocarbon is 0.009 inch = 2X

Sufix 6 lb test fluorocarbon is 0.008 inch = 3X

Seaguar Red Label 6 lb test fluorocarbon is 0.008 inch = 3X

Every flourocarbon fishing line that I found that is 3X is much weaker than 3X fluorocarbon tippet material. It may be that the labels are not quite accurate; but with a 50% strength advantage of multiple tippet brands vs multiple fishing lines, it is pretty hard to believe that tippets and fishing lines are even close to equal in breaking strength.

[Philly 0]

I split it between the two. If I'm fishing for trout using 5x-11x then I'll buy the tippet material. Since I do my shopping at an Orvis dealer, I use the Orvis product, plus I spend a couple of the holiday weekends in Vermont a short drive from the main store in Manchester and on those weekends they have tent sales and I can usually pick up the large tippet spools for between $2 to $10 dollars. Anything heavier, 8 lb and up, I use whatever brand fluorocarbon I've brought to spool my spinning reels.

[heavynets 0]

Not all brands of tippet or fishing line are equal. Their actual breaking strength can vary greatly from the listed strength. Here is a great article that compares several brands.

 

http://www.flyfisherman.com/gear-accessories/fly-tying-materials-gear-and-accessories/2012-tippet-shootout/

[flytire 0]

:)

 

 

or fluorocarbon

[mikechell 0]

Nice views of the Ian James tippet set up ... LOL

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Local conditions and customs will dictate in large part what folks in your area commonly use (and don't forget that the advice from your local fly shop will influence what most use...). That said, there's a world of difference between different tippet brands/types. I'm not a freshwater guy at all (although in winter we'll occasionally start in the salt then run all the way back up into sawgrass areas where both fresh and saltwater fish can be found in a purely freshwater environment -with lots of 'gators just to make sure you're paying attention...).

 

When I was doing lots and lots of bonefishing here in south Florida we built our own leaders (tapered systems similar to the ones proposed all those years ago by Charles of the Ritz). Those leaders were almost exclusively built with Ande Premium fishing line ( a typical leader would taper down to 8, 10, or 12lb line using a 4, 2, 1, 3 (each number being in feet, starting with 30 or 40lb then on down with the shortest piece considered the "hinge". They worked quite well but mono always needs to be straightened carefully.... When fluorocarbon came along we went with that for the bitter end that connected to the fly. Real fluorocarbon (don't think that many fishing lines labeled "fluoro" or "son of fluoro", are actually pure fluorocarbon.... caveat emptor!...) straightens perfectly with a single steady pull on the material (which also has almost completely eliminated "line stretchers"). By the way pure fluoro sinks quicker than mono in the same size... that may or may not be of any importance to you.... Fluoro is advertised as being harder for fish to see but I like it for its slightly better abrasion resistance compared to mono....

 

Once I began to rig for tarpon fly tournaments in the Keys my tippet material went almost exclusively to Mason Hard mono (since that was the requirement for many tournaments where a spool of the stuff was given to every angler and guide...). Mason is strange stuff since it's noticeably larger in diameter, and stiffer, than most mono.... The Mason that we use is always 15 or 20lb (mostly for tarpon tourneys) and has the same "one stretch" removes any line kinks or curls that flourocarbon has... It also mates quite well with a fluorocarbon bite tippet (in the 'Glades I have the luxury of using 80lb fluoro bite tippet attached to 20lb Mason for big tarpon.... in the Keys and other super clear water areas no one uses an 80lb bite tippet anymore -many go all the way down to 50 or even 40lb to get the bite from that big silver fish.... and worry about what happens afterwards...).

 

As far as fluoro for bite tippets I use Ande 100% fluoro leader material for up to 40lb (economical compared to Seaguar....) and Seaguar blue label for heavier fluoro leaders.

 

Lastly so much will depend on what you're going to be doing on the water and the existing conditions. If I have a pattern I have a lot of confidence in and get a refusal my first response (along with going to a smaller version of the same pattern) is to consider going to a lighter (or in freshwater parlance, "finer") tippet. Many days I'll do without a bite tippet entirely to get a bite from really spooky fish (and in saltwater that usually means you're heavily handicapped against a fish with an abrasive mouth like a snook or baby tarpon...). Hope this helps. I know I've probably strayed far afield from your original question but anyone making the transition from fresh to salt will face these same problems on their first day...

[colotyer 0]

Trouthunter fluorocarbon tippet,the absolute best there is.

[artimus001 0]

i would suggest buying one of each and let your on water experience be the the final judge.

 

Nice views of the Ian James tippet set up ... LOL

 

i've bumped into Ian a couple of times over the years. this could be quite painful; as he is a mountain of a man and played rugby. i find that it is better to approach him from the front in a nonthreatening manner. (if you have met him or have read his book; then you can appreciate the humour in my statement, lol).

 

i owe a major source of my fly fishing knowledge and success to him. imho he was a pioneer in fly fishing for carp, nymphing for smallmouth bass, has invented absolutely killer fly patterns and of course,the infamous the level leader. i learned all of this back in 2004 roughly. with all of his accomplishments, his love for the Thames River (South Western Ontario) and it's healthy and future is what i admire him for most.

 

my home waters, are on the stretch of water that he has been a very strong voice (stronger in private) for natural restoration. the city likes to (wants to), dam up the river for paddle sports. this is downstream from 6 waste-water treatment plants servicing a population base of 300, 000 people. the end result is an e-coli infested pond. the funny thing is that the women's national rowing team trains on the lake at the edge of town. go figure. currently the dam is broken, and the river has been flowing free for 6 yrs, and it is amazing. it is so wild now i can forget that i'm in the city. all species have benefited, including some of those that are at risk. there is an ongoing court case over this damn dam. it was damaged on start-up, and the city is trying to find fault in engineering. all points are at the city though as they started it without authorization. i really hope that the city eats it and the river continues to run free.

 

rant over.

 

seeings how most of us are shut in with winter, here are some links for all of the above.

 

his web site: http://www3.sympatico.ca/ianjames/fumb.html

his book: http://www.amazon.ca/Fumbling-flyrod-Ian-Colin-James/dp/0002000423

damn dam: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/12/03/12017306-sun.html

great blog with pictures: http://paulroeddingphotography.com/2014/09/15/thames-river-much-healthier-without-springbank-dam/

 

disclaimer: i am not a shill for Ian. but i will send him a link to this. it might just get me some free flies