Popper Bodies VS Hook Size..Opinions.?

[Mike West 0]

I've been on a popper craze lately, Soft Foam,Hard Foam,Make my own from Foam,Cork, Balsa & Bass Wood.

I'll do a pictures post when I'm done with them all, anyways...man trying to find hooks that fit preformed poppers! Gezzz. Don't listen to the manufacturer is all I have to say.

I've ordered all kinds of hooks and went to numerous outlets with poppers in hand trying to find the right size hooks and it's really hard. Too small,too big wire too thick,wire to thin...ect. ect.

The problem might be on my end because I want the body to end before the point of the hook with just a little room to tie a weed guard in at the eye if I choose too.

Most of the hook recommendations or kits that come with the hooks don't do this.

I read something on the net that Waspi couldn't find hooks to fit their pencil poppers so they had their own made to their specs.....in my opinion they didn't get it right!

Check out this pic. and tell me what you think. The top popper I cut and reshaped and left enough room to tie in a weed guard at the eye, the bottom popper is right out of the package with the eye butted up to the face.

As a side note, I've been using Allen 200 hooks and love them. Bought some 12's # 14's thinking I get a prefect bream hook...Nope they are pretty big for a 14. If that is their scale I'd love to see them made down to a 20.

 

[Stippled Popper 0]

If you are talking about hooks for the Wapsi bream bodies, I'd go with either a dry fly hook or the Mustad 33903 hook which is what Mustad now sells with hook/body combo sets since Mustad ended production of #12 & #14 sizes in the CK52S. The dry fly hook will give you a wider gape. But it also requires more care in proper cementing the hook in the slot since there is no kink in the hook to prevent the hook sliding side to side if your cement job was sub par.

 

As for how far the hook point sits back relative to the body, I want it not under the body and enough shank left to tie in the tail I want(for most to tie a quarter inch or less is plenty). How far back from there is important for how the body sits in the water . . . not completely parallel to the surface but with the tail somewhat lower than the hook eye relative to the water surface.

[Mike West 0]

If you are talking about hooks for the Wapsi bream bodies, I'd go with either a dry fly hook or the Mustad 33903 hook which is what Mustad now sells with hook/body combo sets since Mustad ended production of #12 & #14 sizes in the CK52S. The dry fly hook will give you a wider gape. But it also requires more care in proper cementing the hook in the slot since there is no kink in the hook to prevent the hook sliding side to side if your cement job was sub par.

 

As for how far the hook point sits back relative to the body, I want it not under the body and enough shank left to tie in the tail I want(for most to tie a quarter inch or less is plenty). How far back from there is important for how the body sits in the water . . . not completely parallel to the surface but with the tail somewhat lower than the hook eye relative to the water surface.

 

Well those too but basically I'm just talking what the manufacturer recommends for their popper body in general. Hardest ones are these Saltwater poppers.

I found the Allen 200 in size 4 is prefect for the size 1 cup face popper...I forget now what I used on the bream poppers but I think I stuck some on a Gamakatsu bone fish hook and then some on a Allen 200 size 14 and then some on straight ring eye dry fly hook.

[Mike West 0]

Stippled Popper,

I've been playing around trying to obtain the level you paint your poppers at, I'm getting there. Need to get a handle on the paint thickness/consistency. Checked out your website and got all the tools just need some more time at the vise.

While checking out Poppers on Google for ideas I ran across a guy making what he called "The Jelly Bean" as soon as I saw it I was like "Oh that's nice" I have to make some of those real soon..looks like a killer pattern when bass are schooling. Nice Small River/Stream pattern around here too I'm guessing.

Last couple days I've been at it. These 3 are soft foam,Balsa wood and cork.

Just got to put some tails on them tonight...think I have about 16 to do.

(Camera Phone Pics)

 

 

 

 

[FlaFly 0]

Love those Mike! Especially the face shots. Please post pics with their skirts on when you get them done.

[Stippled Popper 0]

Those Jelly Beans paint jobs are quite nice. I like the body shape too.

[caloosa bug 0]

I agree. Love the shape. Have you water tested them? Looks like they would have a short quick dive just barely under the surface. I could see some chobee bucket mouths jumping all over those.

[Dave G. 0]

What line of paints and substance there of are you guys using and what clear coat on these poppers you make, and I assume air brush ( since someone posted last week about air brushing) the finish on ? They come out beautiful !

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

I agree that most hook recommendations for popper heads aren't exactly on target (particularly if you're making bugs for the salt....). I use Wapsi heads almost exclusively - particularly the soft heads recommended for a size #4 hook. I routinely set them up with Mustad 34007 size #1 hooks.... That size works well for almost all of our popper targets in the salt/brackish areas of the Everglades (heavy mangrove jungle shorelines or shallow current areas). Tarpon up to 20lbs, snook up to around 12lbs (larger ones destroy hooks just like larger tarpon....), redfish, speckled trout, and lots of other species (snapper, mackeral, jacks, even small sharks....).

 

The line I make are called Speed Bugs (they're quick to make, which is handy since they get shredded pretty quickly by fish) have no paint or any kind of finish on the heads, and work well with a 8 or 9wt rod. The glue up for the heads is pretty simple - a double layer of Danville's flat-waxed thread is laid on the hook shank where the head will be, the pre-slotted head is worked just barely onto the thread, then a narrow line of super glue (I use Krazy Glue in the small tube - it's thin and easily applied...) is laid onto the thread, then the hook is worked down into the slot where you want it, then the head is clamped for five minutes with a clothes pin. Once the glue is set the bug is ready to have a tail tied - and you're in business. No, I'm not using any kind of weedguard since they're not needed for bugs in my area (in contrast, every sub-surface fly I tie for the 'Glades has a wire weedguard - but that's another story...).

 

Here's a few pics showing the head sequence... then a few of the finished product. It was a best seller in most of the shops I tied for (back when I was doing that....).

[TheCream 0]

Something to try (and if I missed it skimming I apologize) that works well for me with hand made heads is epoxying over a layer of dubbing or chenille. I am hopefully not mistakenly assuming you are turning the heads that you custom make, meaning you probably have a hole through the material where the mandrel would have been inserted. Depending on the size of the popper body, I put a layer of dubbing or one wrapping of chenille where the body will be, coat that with 5 minute epoxy, and slide the head over the glue/material through that mandrel hole. They are pretty solid this way. I do most of mine on Gamakatsu B10S hooks, but I am making shorter, stockier popper heads than some you posted. I don't really need long shank hooks for those, and the B10S gives plenty of hook gap compared to some more streamer-ish popper hooks with a narrower gap.

[Mike West 0]

I agree. Love the shape. Have you water tested them? Looks like they would have a short quick dive just barely under the surface. I could see some chobee bucket mouths jumping all over those.

No I haven't. Maybe this weekend. I just found them here and thought I'd tie some up. Looked like a good design to me.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/062606fotw.php

 

What line of paints and substance there of are you guys using and what clear coat on these poppers you make, and I assume air brush ( since someone posted last week about air brushing) the finish on ? They come out beautiful !

Yes airbrushed and the eyes done with wooden dowels.

Golden High Flow Airbrush Paints. Two coats of High Gloss water based acrylic and then Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails.

 

Something to try (and if I missed it skimming I apologize) that works well for me with hand made heads is epoxying over a layer of dubbing or chenille. I am hopefully not mistakenly assuming you are turning the heads that you custom make, meaning you probably have a hole through the material where the mandrel would have been inserted. Depending on the size of the popper body, I put a layer of dubbing or one wrapping of chenille where the body will be, coat that with 5 minute epoxy, and slide the head over the glue/material through that mandrel hole. They are pretty solid this way. I do most of mine on Gamakatsu B10S hooks, but I am making shorter, stockier popper heads than some you posted. I don't really need long shank hooks for those, and the B10S gives plenty of hook gap compared to some more streamer-ish popper hooks with a narrower gap.

 

I did something similar with these but only with some like cotton twine I had laying around. And I have about every size of the Gamakatsu B10s laying around and use them for a lot of Deerhair and bigger poppers but I just felt the wire gauge was just too heavy for these small poppers. They are pretty small, not as small as the ones in the link above. These are tied on a 4XL #4 streamer hook. I tied them for bream ,small stream bass and schooling bass around here in the fall. Should match in size most of the shad they feed on, I'll probably tie this style up much larger later on.

 

 

Thx guys. I'll post some pics when they are finished.

 

Edit:

Capt. Bob.

Now where's the fun in that?...J/K

 

I've tied basic ones like that before especially if I know I'm going to loose them or if they are going to get trashed. Right now I'm just having fun playing with my new airbrush.

[RickZieger 0]

I make foam cylinder bodies with gasket punches from Harbour Freight. The use a Dremel drill with a 1/64th inch bit to make a hole thru the foam off centered toward the bottom. Use a straight eyed hook and wrap a layer of thick thread on the shank. Superglue on the tread and then force the body on the hook shank thru the hole from the drill bit.

 

This has worked for me.

 

Rick

[phg 0]

The Allen B200 hooks are "Stinger" hooks, and are pretty wide gaped for the nominal size. They aren't really intended for poppers, although they can be used for whatever you want. Stealth Bombers are usually tied on this kind of hook.

 

For foam/cork poppers, you want something like the Mustad 33903 Kink Shanked hook. It has a somewhat longer shank, relative to the hook gape, which allows you the room to do what you are wanting. The Mustads follow normal gape sizing.

[Mike West 0]

The Allen B200 hooks are "Stinger" hooks, and are pretty wide gaped for the nominal size. They aren't really intended for poppers, although they can be used for whatever you want. Stealth Bombers are usually tied on this kind of hook.

 

For foam/cork poppers, you want something like the Mustad 33903 Kink Shanked hook. It has a somewhat longer shank, relative to the hook gape, which allows you the room to do what you are wanting. The Mustads follow normal gape sizing.

Yeah Bass Deer Hair Popper Hooks.

 

I have some of the Mustads too..inferior hook if you ask me but I've been using them for 40+ years.

 

I haven't checked out all their newer ones but I noticed they changed the metallurgy and if you bend them now they break.

I don't need room for the tailing so much as I want better hookups and having the body sit right on top of the point or barb of the hook doesn't facilitate that..little bit of feathers and hackles aren't going to be an issue as much as a hard or soft popper body sitting in that position.

 

Some of the old Mustad Kink shank hooks were "Stingers" also...still have some from 20 years ago or so.

 

Edit:

Here's one. I must have a 200 of these in size 8.

I fish in the south mostly for large bass and in private waters..I've had these straighten out on me many times and lost fish. I fish 14#-20#lb tippets in heavy salad and timber..the only good thing about these hooks is they will straighten out when hooked on a log and you'll get your fly back.

You won't have that happen with an Allen,Tiemco or Gamakaksu.

[JustSomeGuy83 0]

Not to stray away from the OP and hijack the thread but, a side question on poppers - when do y'all add the legs? I've done it first and it is a pain to work around. Doing them near the end seems like they won't be as stable on the shank. Input?