Single foot or snake

[Saltybum 0]

I was wondering who uses single foot over snake guides on their rods. Most rods come with snake guides but I know some have single foot.

Aside from being a little harder to wrap I know they can reduce weight a little. So what are your opinions on advantages and disadvantages of one over the other.

I think I recall reading some where a while back that Steve Rajeff uses single foot on his distance rods.

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

I have rods with both, I prefer single foot guides. IN THEORY, there is less line slap against the blank. In the real world, I don't think it matters.

[heavynets 0]

I prefer snake guides. They pass knots and loops a little easier because they strike the guide at an angle. A tad easier to string up too because the opening is much larger. I have also had noise issues with Recoil brand light wire single foot guides. I've never had any problem with a double foot guide.

[mikechell 0]

I've got one rod, made by Steve, that has the "eyes" ... I don't know if they're "Single foot" or not, but they are complete circles. If I remember correctly, they're "Minima" brand. Anyway, the line seems to sing ... slides through those guide like they aren't there.

All of my production brands rods have the snake guides. I never knew they WEREN'T passing the line freely until I used the custom rod.

 

If I was to build a rod ... or if I have Steve make me another ... I'll ask for the eyes.

[williamhj 0]

I prefer snakes on the rods I build. Prefer the look, find them easier to wrap, pass knots easily, and I haven't noticed any negatives. Have wrapped rods with single foots and, though I know many people use them, didn't see a reason to continue. I think a lot of it is personal preference for normal fishing conditions.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

I'm a traditional rodbuilder as far as fly rods go (things get a bit different when your building spin, plug, or bluewater rods...) so I prefer the heavy hard chromed snake guides (look at any Sage rod for the salt and you'll see what I mean...). The real advantage of snakes over single footed guides is that you can actually pass a knotted up fly line through one under heavy pressure with a big tarpon on the other end (we've done that on more than one occasion...). Held in the usual fashion a knot will hang up on snakes every time... but if you invert the rod so that the snake guides are on top - a knot will pass through like it wasn't even there (the line slides along the blank and doesn't hit the guide much at all in the inverted (reel on top) position in an emergency....

 

Yes, snakes will need to be replaced occasionally and you really need larger sized for heavy rods than you would for a standard light freshwater rod -but they're my first choice every time.

[Steeldrifter 0]

I usually use single foots on rods under 8wt and double foots on rods 8wt or larger. Sometimes I will use single foots on 8wt's but usually I will oversize them when I do that. The advantages of one over the other are primarily so small that it's not really that noticeable by most casters. I've found that single foot Minimas do in fact seem to shoot line a bit better than snake guides because they keep the line up off the blank for no line slap, and they are in fact a lighter option because you have half the amount of finish on the rod. Again though the difference is mostly very small. Far as knots passing through snake foots better that is mostly only true in heavier weight lines. Smaller knots in trout sized leaders pass through single foots very easily, it's only when you get up into using heavier weight mono that the knot size gets bigger and it will hang a bit more on a single foot. Most times though there's no need to crank the knot through the guides so that's usually not an issue for most people anyway.

 

Someone mentioned the noise made by single foot guides. That is only true with REC brand "recoil" guides and not by any other single foot guide. REC recoils are made of a flexible metal they does vibrate when casting and makes for a noise as the line passed through them, it's known as "singing". I personally won;t use recoils for that very reason. It's a very annoying noise for most people that they do not like to hear all day while on the water. So the only time I use recoils is if the customer requests them. Normal single foot guides and Minima single foot guides do not make that noise, only the recoils do that.

 

So with all that said what it really boils down to is more or less just personal preference.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

I assume that the single foot guides referred to by the OP and those who have replied to his question so far are the ones that are made of the same or similar wire to traditional snake guides, and are in fact referred to in most rod-building catalogs as "single foot snake guides." I've never noticed a difference between the two in terms of performance. I like the single foot snakes because they mean half the wrapping and finishing time when buildling the rod. Other than that factor, they are interchangeable in my mind.

 

However, I have not yet heard anyone specifically mention the newest type of guide for fly rods, which is the larger-diameter single-foot guides that consist of a lightweight metal frame with a ceramic insert, such as this:

 

 

I don't know of any production rods that have these guides, but they are well known among custom fly rod builders. I've built 3 rods with this type of guide -- all 8-weights--and in my opinion they DO offer advantages over either type of wire snake guide. Because of their larger diameter, they pass knots effortlessly, and they allow you to shoot line significantly further than do snake guides (single or double foot). Also, because the ceramic ring--particularly in the tip top guide--decreases line-to-guide friction, they decrease wear on your fly line, making it last longer.

 

A lot of fly fishers don't like the look of this type of guide, as it is not "traditional". I only use them for my 7 wt. and larger rods that I frequently need to shoot a lot of line for longer casts. What they lack in classic aesthetics they more than make up in performance. It's all about what you're looking for in a guide.

[switch10 0]

I generally use single foot guides on 5 weights and lighter. I really only use them to reduce weight/thread wraps/finish. I haven't noticed any difference in casting distance or anything either way.

[mikechell 0]

Someone mentioned the noise made by single foot guides. That is only true with REC brand "recoil" guides and not by any other single foot guide. REC recoils are made of a flexible metal they does vibrate when casting and makes for a noise as the line passed through them, it's known as "singing". I personally won;t use recoils for that very reason. It's a very annoying noise for most people that they do not like to hear all day while on the water. So the only time I use recoils is if the customer requests them. Normal single foot guides and Minima single foot guides do not make that noise, only the recoils do that.

That was me, Steve. I mentioned that the line seems to sing. Maybe it's the line, but I definitely can hear the line passing through the Minimas guides you put on my rod. Although I can hear that ... that's not really what I meant.

I was referring to the fact that the 5'6" rod, I got from you, shoots line as well as most of my longer rods.

[Steeldrifter 0]

 

That was me, Steve. I mentioned that the line seems to sing. Maybe it's the line, but I definitely can hear the line passing through the Minimas guides you put on my rod. Although I can hear that ... that's not really what I meant.

I was referring to the fact that the 5'6" rod, I got from you, shoots line as well as most of my longer rods.

 

Gotta be your line you use Mike because the Minimas don't make any more noise than snakes. Only ones that make noise due to the guide itself are recoils because of the material they are made out of.

 

 

 

However, I have not yet heard anyone specifically mention the newest type of guide for fly rods, which is the larger-diameter single-foot guides that consist of a lightweight metal frame with a ceramic insert, such as this:

 

Byron those have actually been around for a long time in use on fly rods by custom builders. They are one of those love them or hate them type guides for builders. Some guys love them because they don't wear and they shoot line well, and other hate them because of the added weight of the ceramic ring. I've used them a few times myself over the years and tend to like non ceramic rings better these days.

[heavynets 0]

I've heard that the ceramic single foot guide or tip top will ice-up much more easily than snake guides, if you fish in those conditions.

 

Does the weight of the additional finish on a double foot guides REALLY make a difference? I don't buy it. Changing from a dry fly to a woolly bugger or having an additional 3" of line out would have more of an effect on the rod.

[ditz2 0]

I have an early Diawa graphite 9' 8wt rod that has what appears to be Fuji single foot guides and it is the only rod I own that has single foot guides. I have not fished it a lot but I have never noticed much of a difference. I learned early on that pulling the line/leader connection into the tiptop was generally not a great idea. But then again I seldom catch any fish heavy enough to require me to do so. I seldom fish a leader longer than the rod on my longer rods....which may be the reason I don't catch the BIG ONES..I guess I am just more of a traditionalist and prefer the snake guides. I do like them on the large size on my heavier rods and I also like fairly large striper guides and two of them on my heavier rods.

[Steeldrifter 0]

Does the weight of the additional finish on a double foot guides REALLY make a difference? I don't buy it. Changing from a dry fly to a woolly bugger or having an additional 3" of line out would have more of an effect on the rod.

 

That's why I said it is not a noticeable difference. Measured in grams it is lighter just because you have half the amount of epoxy finish on the rod, but it's not something that you will cast and say "hey this is lighter" by any means.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

To clear something up about knots and snake guides - I'm not talking about leaders or shooting heads or any other of the normal connecting knots - I was actually talking about disasters -when your fly line itself has a knot or tangle in it as it jumps up off the deck with a really big fish at the bitter end.... For most anglers that problem results in an immediate break off (if you're lucky - I've seen rods that had the guides literally ripped off the rod by a tangle and big angry fish...). Once you learn to invert the rod you can usually pass the tangle or knot right through the guides and get on with the business of fish fighting until you have that knot back close enough to attempt to clear it before going any farther. That's why I specifically mentioned this as an advantage that snake guides have over single foots (by the way I built my first fly rod using single foot Fuji guides in 1976 -Fuji was the only game in town back then for single foots..... all of this was at the beginning of graphite blanks for fly rod builders - contrary guy that I am that rod was built on a Lamiglass s-glass blank, before I even knew how to fish with one....). Although I'd been building rods for a few years by then my first attempt at a fly rod wasn't very satisfactory in the hand.... I didn't learn the finer points of building fly rods until I got to know one of the guys who built rods for Uslan Rods (if you ever run into a Nat Uslan split bamboo rod you'll be able to distinguish it from any other split bamboo rod... Old Nat built five sided cane rods on the same machines he'd brought from New York many years before..). All of that is long gone now but Uslan was a fixture for years down here in paradise with a small shop in north Dade county that was visited by many top saly types for their gear....