Feather Emporium; Honest?? Anybody Using Them?

[David Roberts 0]

Jokey,

 

"Bad form sir"... You've got to be kidding me! The power of the internet goes both ways. How many times do you see people going on forums to slam a business. To humiliate them! They lay out every detail for others to see and then others start to pile on. Look at John F's post. His only interest was to pile on and slam me. And as soon as he posted the picture of what I sold him - opinion turned and so did he.

 

I put Robert MacLeod's name and email address out there to show the other side. If I were to post his nasty threatening emails here you might better understand. This is a very dishonest person and luckily I don't run into that many like him. But the fact remains, he spoils it for the honest people out there.

 

Customers know the power they have and some use it. This is why I have a "no questions asked return policy". Send one customer a cape that is the wrong shade of brown or something of the sort and they aren't happy and you have a problem. One bad review on a forum like this and you're toast.

 

Go back and look at the first post that got this whole thing going. Why did Ray post what he did? I'll tell you why, he wanted to use the power of this forum to get results. To get his feathers that he paid for. He even says that as soon as he posted that I called. It makes the reader think that posting something like that gets results.

 

Why didn't he try to resolve this "off board". I don't know. The last email I received from him was February 15th. No missed calls either, I checked. I shipped his order on the 20th and never heard another word about it until a few days ago when a customer alerted me to this thread.

 

I wish he had called or emailed me sooner. Maybe the post office could have located his lost order. The tracking for the first order is a dead end at the sorting facility and the hope of locating it at this point is poor at best. Non the less, I immediately reshipped the order.

 

The case with Mr Macleod is different. Check the tracking. It proves that he received his order. He intentionally cheated me out of money and feathers. He could have called after receiving the feathers and said there was a mistake. Not a word. And after all his threatening and abusive emails telling me that "I should give up being a businessman", I'm more than glad to use the power of this forum to show you the other side. Why shouldn't I alert other merchants? Like Ray posted; BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE.

 

Or are these forums just to draw out business that are intent on cheating the fly tiers? After you've been "Macleoded" a few times, I think you'll understand. As they say, the knife cuts both ways.

[Harold Ray 0]

The case with Mr Macleod is different. Check the tracking. It proves that he received his order.

 

 

I wanted to respond to some points here; David and I might disagree on whether or not the feathers arrived, but that's about it:

 

I totally agree with David on the point of exposing people who are trying to cheat you. I have posted bad checks before so everyone could view them. I want to embarrass anyone who gives me a bad check or tries to "run out" on an honest debt. There is absolutely nothing wrong in my view when doing that. The person giving the bad check or not paying the bill is basically robbing you; that is illegal and retribution is due, one way or another.

 

Secondly, concerning the cape that was discussed earlier. Everyone has their anticipations when receiving goods, whatever they may be. Had I received that cape, I would have been pleased and satisfied I believe; in the image, it appeared beautiful to me. Capes and saddles vary from chicken to chicken; that's genetics and heredity. When comparing the two Whiting Cree capes posted, I thought they both looked very close in quality; I am, of course, not a feather grader, but again, both were beautiful to me. If you've got the feathers and you are unsatisfied, it states in many areas on David's site that they can be returned for satisfaction. What was the question there; send them back.

 

Three: The feathers I received from David in my first of two orders were beautiful. The dying was perfect and the colors were vibrant and, in my opinion, spectacular; I could not have asked for or expected better. I have bought a lot of Whiting feathers; those I received in the first order, although unmarked, were as good as they get, straight, uncurled, full, and beautifully colored. My only suggestion is shipping individual capes and saddles in individual Zip Lock bags with a paper insert to absorb residual oils from skins.

 

Fourth, I posted here because I thought I had called twice, e-mailed once, and that was enough. Perhaps I should have called him again, and if I erred, I apologize. Running any business is tough, and anyone, including me, can make a mistake.

 

David and I had a disagreement and misunderstanding; it is being resolved. He has a beautiful site, and I have been happy with my first shipment and anticipate being pleased with the second. If he will still accept me as a client, I will continue purchasing from him. I work with many people today, with whom I have had some mild dispute in the past. Everyone benefits. That is business.

 

Ray

[David Roberts 0]

Seems that good old Barry is not willing to give up just yet. Here's an email he sent today to Dr. Whiting. I thinks he's hoping to catch me in one of those "gotcha questions"

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Foster [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 12:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Cree Capes

I purchased a Cree Cape from Dave Roberts three or four months ago. There
has been some discussion on Flyfishingforums about his business honesty. His
business is,as I'm sure you know Feather emporium. The cape I received from
him was not packaged in normal Whiting packaging,in fact it was in a plain
plastic ziplock bag. He maintains they he purchases premium capes from you
in bulk and as such they are not in your packaging. Can you confirm that
this is the case and that he is not sourcing capes from somewhere else and
selling them as Whiting? I did in fact write to you a while ago but I did
not seem to have received a reply.

Here is a photo of the cape in question.

[David Roberts 0]

And here's Dr. Whiting's reply;

 

Hello Barry

I looked at the photos you forwarded, and the cree cape does look very much
like a Whiting Farms pelt; by the trim style, the feathers and the general
appearance.

We do sell directly to Dave Roberts at Feather Emporium, and I am aware that
he resells pelts without our packaging. Dave buys a lot of our unusual
pelts, and peddles them as they are not regular items. He also does
taxidermy work for us.

I have not heard any other negative things about Dave's business practices.
But I personally don't visit any forums as I just don't have the time I am
afraid. If you are not happy with the cape, I would imagine Dave might
refund your money.

In regard to Dave sourcing other hackle producers products, I believe he
does, and that is fine by me. But the cape in the photos I am 99% sure if
from Whiting Farms.

Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely,

Tom Whiting

 

 

Something tells me that is is still not going to be good enough for Barry...

[barrytheguide 0]

And here's Dr. Whiting's reply;

 

Hello Barry

I looked at the photos you forwarded, and the cree cape does look very much

like a Whiting Farms pelt; by the trim style, the feathers and the general

appearance.

We do sell directly to Dave Roberts at Feather Emporium, and I am aware that

he resells pelts without our packaging. Dave buys a lot of our unusual

pelts, and peddles them as they are not regular items. He also does

taxidermy work for us.

I have not heard any other negative things about Dave's business practices.

But I personally don't visit any forums as I just don't have the time I am

afraid. If you are not happy with the cape, I would imagine Dave might

refund your money.

In regard to Dave sourcing other hackle producers products, I believe he

does, and that is fine by me. But the cape in the photos I am 99% sure if

from Whiting Farms.

Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely,

Tom Whiting

 

 

Something tells me that is is still not going to be good enough for Barry...

 

Since you want to continue this matter on a public forum lets go ahead. It's true I wrote to Whiting and you have a copy of the email, what's wrong with wanting verification of the facts as stated by you?

Next, I haven't received the reply that you have quoted. If I had I might have been satisfied without having to wash any dirty laundry in public.

Next, if you check your PM's you will see that I wrote this matter was not something that I wanted to damage your company. I have also written to the mods to request that all my posts on this thread be deleted and the thread should maybe locked.

Now, what you haven't tol all our "viewers" and may not know, I spoke at some length today to Whiting's customer service, a gentleman named Tom and asked if it was normal practice for them to supply bronze and silver quality capes to you without any Whiting packaging, he was very surprised and said that you only got seconds like this, what you call show quality. He also stated more than once that they have had at least four other complaints about Feather Emporium recently. He said that Dr Whiting was not there today and he would speak to him on Monday and get back to me.

So, now you have the facts, I'm curious what these other complaints might be. You protest to much, and in my training that implies guilt.

You just don't know when to shut up and take notice of your customers, if you want to draw this out go ahead, it's not doing you any good at all.

Oh, the going price for a silver or bronze cape which you seem to have plenty of is not $145 which you are asking for your seemingly unlimited supply of Whiting Cree capes

I'll phone Dr Whiting on Monday to see what he's got to say.

[Gene L 0]

Cree capes are rare and I'd expect to pay a lot more for them.

 

The price seems about right to me. Not that I can afford one. Seems your principal complaint was that the capes did not have the Whiting cardboard packing along witih the cape, which has been explained thoroughly. No foul that I see.

 

I'm pretty canny on feathers and. I grade my own capes pretty well, at least in my own mind. They're chickens, not producing machine grade feathers, , as there are many variations and I'm my own judge of capes. All capes I've purchased (none from FE) are excellent, and most are in high grades, silver and above. FEW (very few) Cree capes are platinum grade, although they are more expensive, but the few, I've seen are capable of producing good flies.

 

Cree capes are extreme varients and maybe should be given a little slack so far as grading goes. I've found "Proffesional grade" to be somewhat above Bronze and somewhat less than Silver. I don't know the grades on a Cree cape, but they're very rare in any grade and very desirable.. For those who tie a lot of Adams, they make it a lot easier.

[barrytheguide 0]

Cree capes are rare and I'd expect to pay a lot more for them.

 

The price seems about right to me. Not that I can afford one. Seems your principal complaint was that the capes did not have the Whiting cardboard packing along witih the cape, which has been explained thoroughly. No foul that I see.

 

I'm pretty canny on feathers and. I grade my own capes pretty well, at least in my own mind. They're chickens, not producing machine grade feathers, , as there are many variations and I'm my own judge of capes. All capes I've purchased (none from FE) are excellent, and most are in high grades, silver and above. FEW (very few) Cree capes are platinum grade, although they are more expensive, but the few, I've seen are capable of producing good flies.

 

Cree capes are extreme varients and maybe should be given a little slack so far as grading goes. I've found "Proffesional grade" to be somewhat above Bronze and somewhat less than Silver. I don't know the grades on a Cree cape, but they're very rare in any grade and very desirable.. For those who tie a lot of Adams, they make it a lot easier.

 

Gene, you are missing the point. I don't mind paying a premium price for something that is hard to get, that's life these days. But I merely wanted proof that it was in fact a Whiting Cape and not some knock off. Now, it appears that this internet retailer has a cozy relationship with Whiting ( I bet there are a lot of retailers who want to know why they can't get a single Cree Cape from Whiting) in my conversation with the Whiting rep it would appear that there are several other complaints about the quality of Feather Emporium Whiting products. One might suspect that Whiting is using Feather Emporium to dump sub-standard product. This is something that should be bought to the fly tyers attention.. It seems that Tom Whiting gave a copy of a email to Feather Emporium which although was addressed to me I have never received, now that's what I call "cozy"

[David Roberts 0]

Seems that everyone on this forum is missing your point. What is it again?

[mikechell 0]

The only business I see being hurt here, is any guide business with "barry" in the name. I, for one, will not book a trip with anyone named "Barry", because I don't want to spend a day with someone whining on and on and on and on and on and on and on ...

 

Probably blaming Sea World for the lack of fish the customer is not catching.

[carlp5351 0]

I just purchased a Whiting Cree Gold saddle from FE and it was top notch. It was packaged in the Whiting package and if it wasn't I don't think it would have bothered me. You could take one look at the saddle and tell the quality was there. The service was top notch.

 

carlp

[David Roberts 0]

Hey, what happened to Barry the Guide's picture?

[shoebop 0]

Barry, if you are looking for a face saving way to back out of this fiasco, that ship has sailed! Take your medicine and remove your foot from your mouth. This is why your mother told you not to speak with your mouth full!

 

 

 

 

How's that for mixing my metaphors?

[David Roberts 0]

You just don't know when to shut up and take notice of your customers, if you want to draw this out go ahead, it's not doing you any good at all.

 

 

Barry,

 

You have no idea what your whining on and on has done for me this past week. I just checked my google analytics and traffic to my website has exploded and orders have gone through the roof.

 

Just look at the number of people who have viewed this thread. I need to thank you for that!

 

So by all means, feel free and keep spouting off your know-it-all nonsense. And while you're at it, go ahead and call Dr Whiting so you can tell him how he should run his business too.

[cjsnyder1234 0]

I have ordered from Dave a few times and he has a life long customer great guy to do business with! Keep on keeping on bud.

[barrytheguide 0]

The only business I see being hurt here, is any guide business with "barry" in the name. I, for one, will not book a trip with anyone named "Barry", because I don't want to spend a day with someone whining on and on and on and on and on and on and on ...

 

Probably blaming Sea World for the lack of fish the customer is not catching.

Actually, I'm retired so you won't be able to book a trip wih me. But after 2,500 trips a no countless trout returned I reall don't have to guide anyone else, just myself.

If you, or anyone else wishes to purchase from FE, go ahead. It's a free world.