Feather

[foambug 0]

I have a lot of blue jay an stellar jar feathers... is there any sites from old wet flies tyers that use these feathers in their recipe?

[rockworm 0]

They use a lot of blue jay across the pond. For front hackle, cheeks, etc. I will take a quick look and see if I can name you a few patterns.

A quick search found these:

Throat: Prince Charming, Connemara Black, Dunkeld, Invicta, Thunder and Lightening

Wings: Blue Jay, Colonel Dowman's Fancy, Blue-Winged Olive (wet)

Front Hackle: Claret and Jay, Watson's Bumble

And I think there are probably many salmon flies that use BJ

[phg 0]

Most classic patterns call for feathers from the wing of the Eurasian Jay. The American Blue Jay isn't used very much. I think this is because most of the color you see is just on the edge of the feather. I know I tried, over 40 years ago, to find uses for them (before the internet, and when it was legal to kill blue jays) and found very little use for them.

[Gene L 0]

I know it is around here and suspect it is other places, illegal to use songbird feathers to tie flies. If you're caught using them, they're going to assume you killed the birds for the feathers.

[JSzymczyk 0]

if you're in the US, it is "against the law" to use songbird feathers. Not going to quote chapter and verse because it has all been discussed here in painful detail about once a year or so.

 

In any case, do not use them because it is just not worth it. Any piece of any fly out there can be tied better and more effectively with commonly available feathers from the tying industry. Yes it sucks to find something which seems useful and have to just leave it alone and let it go unused, but that's the way it is.

 

I challenge anyone to show a documented case of a lone fisherman being successfully prosecuted for fishing with a fly containing songbird feather elements- as in an on-stream stop and the officer is able to identify the fly being used is made with statutorily prohibited songbird feathers, is correct about it, and the fisherman is held accountable in the scope of the law. The time and resources needed to prove the materials are prohibited would be immense- different story than if someone was selling thousands of them commercially. Unless you advertise it, like by posting about it on the internet, nobody is ever going to know if you tied a couple flies with feathers you have found in your yard.

[flytire 0]

be careful. theyre watching

 

[foambug 0]

Want to thank all the good stuff, kids bring me feathers an there they sit an it one of those " I wonder" moments cause looking at some of the old ties there are a ton of birds ...protected of course ...I know eagles Hawks buzzards ect are .....an it's always good to know the "birds" it's kinda funny ..when I think of ...like the starlings..I know there is a least one fly .....but thank you all for all the good words,,,,there is a book I use for alot of my old wets that I try to tie,,( mcclane's standard fishing encyclopedia)......but again thank you all

[whatfly 0]

I challenge anyone to show a documented case of a lone fisherman being successfully prosecuted for fishing with a fly containing songbird feather elements [snip]

Not sure why this is relevant. You can follow the law because you fear enforcement, or you can also follow the law because you think it is a good idea. You can of course decide to ignore the law, but then you must be willing to deal with the consequences. If you wish to be a scofflaw, that is your prerogative, but there is nothing wrong with providing the obligatory warning to a potentially uninformed tier.

[phg 0]

 

I challenge anyone to show a documented case of a lone fisherman being successfully prosecuted for fishing with a fly containing songbird feather elements [snip]

Not sure why this is relevant. You can follow the law because you fear enforcement, or you can also follow the law because you think it is a good idea. You can of course decide to ignore the law, but then you must be willing to deal with the consequences. If you wish to be a scofflaw, that is your prerogative, but there is nothing wrong with providing the obligatory warning to a potentially uninformed tier.

 

...and yes, people do occasionally get busted. Around here, game wardens will question you if you are using a Yeller Hammer.

 

Whatfly, there is a 3rd scenario, too. You obey the law because you respect the law, even though you may disagree with the law in question. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you're going to obey.

[cphubert 0]

Yes I've been asked to see my materials coming back from Canada - looking for polar bear. I use goat or yak, clearly not worth the fines and much easier to find a legal substitute. I do miss polar bear and seal, but respect the law. Never harvested songbirds for feathers, but I am a sucker for road kill fur on occasion, and I agree with my shipmate JSzymczyk, no one has ever checked my flies to ask what they are tied with.........yet

[Saltybum 0]

John Waite can sell you polar bear hair legally. 1.800.347.4654

Not cheap but he has it.

[Mackle 0]

respecting the law is a good thing. understanding the law is even better. i sell feathers on ebay. read laws and regulations all day long. migratory, song, and raptor bird protection laws in the US pretty easy to understand. when i'm not sure, i email these guys/gals.

 

https://www.fws.gov/international/about-us/division-of-management-authority.html

 

these guys reply in 24 hours to any question. don't guess or believe what you read online. ask them.

 

i sell the eurasian jay on ebay, mostly in pairs, but also skins and wings. sourced from UK and japan. keep provenance for them in case a mean ebay competitor reports me. i put in my MBTA bird listings like bronze mallard flank, the specific fws citation that makes it legal to use for a fly. if you didn't shoot the bird yourself, you have to follow this citation to be perfectly legal. most people don't worry about it but here it is in case you were interested.

 

FWS FAQ for MBTA Regulations & Policy

FWM #428

724 FW 2

Migratory Bird Permits

§ 21.13 Permit exceptions for captive-reared mallard ducks

part (e)

(e) At all times during possession, transportation, and storage until the raw carcasses of such birds are finally processed immediately prior to cooking, smoking, or canning, the marked foot or wing must remain attached to each carcass: Provided, That persons, who operate game farms or shooting preserves under a State license, permit, or authorization for such activities, may remove the marked foot or wing when either the number of his State license, permit, or authorization has first been legibly stamped in ink on the back of each carcass and on the container in which each carcass is maintained, or each carcass is identified by a State band on leg or wing pursuant to requirements of his State license, permit, or authorization. When properly marked, such carcasses may be disposed of to, or acquired from, any person and possessed and transported in any number at any time or place.

[40 FR 28459, July 7, 1975, as amended at 46 FR 42680, Aug. 24, 1981; 54 FR 36798, Sept. 5, 1989]

The commercial source of these products (Hareline Dubbin) maintains the documentation of the aforementioned legal requirements. So anyone downstream from Hareline (you and I) is in precise adherence to the law.

as an aside, i'm trying to identify this bustard skin skin i'm about to pluck. any one know???

[mikechell 0]

Welcome to the site, Mackle. The feathers look a bit like a dove of some kind, but the head doesn't. There are many on this site that will probably know ...

 

Wow, on the information ... I don't use feathers much, so I've never been in danger of buying something I shouldn't.

[flytire 0]

Mackle posted it was a bustard skin but I have no idea what kind

[mvendon 0]

respecting the law is a good thing. understanding the law is even better. i sell feathers on ebay. read laws and regulations all day long. migratory, song, and raptor bird protection laws in the US pretty easy to understand. when i'm not sure, i email these guys/gals.

 

https://www.fws.gov/international/about-us/division-of-management-authority.html

 

these guys reply in 24 hours to any question. don't guess or believe what you read online. ask them.

 

i sell the eurasian jay on ebay, mostly in pairs, but also skins and wings. sourced from UK and japan. keep provenance for them in case a mean ebay competitor reports me. i put in my MBTA bird listings like bronze mallard flank, the specific fws citation that makes it legal to use for a fly. if you didn't shoot the bird yourself, you have to follow this citation to be perfectly legal. most people don't worry about it but here it is in case you were interested.

 

FWS FAQ for MBTA Regulations & Policy

FWM #428

724 FW 2

Migratory Bird Permits

§ 21.13 Permit exceptions for captive-reared mallard ducks

part (e)

(e) At all times during possession, transportation, and storage until the raw carcasses of such birds are finally processed immediately prior to cooking, smoking, or canning, the marked foot or wing must remain attached to each carcass: Provided, That persons, who operate game farms or shooting preserves under a State license, permit, or authorization for such activities, may remove the marked foot or wing when either the number of his State license, permit, or authorization has first been legibly stamped in ink on the back of each carcass and on the container in which each carcass is maintained, or each carcass is identified by a State band on leg or wing pursuant to requirements of his State license, permit, or authorization. When properly marked, such carcasses may be disposed of to, or acquired from, any person and possessed and transported in any number at any time or place.

[40 FR 28459, July 7, 1975, as amended at 46 FR 42680, Aug. 24, 1981; 54 FR 36798, Sept. 5, 1989]

The commercial source of these products (Hareline Dubbin) maintains the documentation of the aforementioned legal requirements. So anyone downstream from Hareline (you and I) is in precise adherence to the law.

as an aside, i'm trying to identify this bustard skin skin i'm about to pluck. any one know???DSC07108s.jpg

 

It looks a lot like a white bellied bustard from africa. There's lots of images on google.

 

Regards,

Mark