Bamboo Rod Build

[niveker 0]

Sounds like an enjoyable project DF,  I'd be interested to see your rod wrapping/drying stand set up if you don't mind sharing.  I'll be following along as this is something I would like to eventually get into. 

I have a few of those old blue collar bamboo rods that I use occasionally, but would like to re-do them and get more use out of them.  Currently have Cote's Fly Shop in Leicester redoing an old LL Bean Double L bamboo rod, should be ready in a few weeks. His prices are pretty reasonable and he does nice work, but would prefer to do them myself.  

[DFoster 0]

37 minutes ago, niveker said:

Sounds like an enjoyable project DF,  I'd be interested to see your rod wrapping/drying stand set up if you don't mind sharing.  I'll be following along as this is something I would like to eventually get into. 

I have a few of those old blue collar bamboo rods that I use occasionally, but would like to re-do them and get more use out of them.  Currently have Cote's Fly Shop in Leicester redoing an old LL Bean Double L bamboo rod, should be ready in a few weeks. His prices are pretty reasonable and he does nice work, but would prefer to do them myself.  

Thanks sir, .-forgive me if this is a bit long, because of Christmas almost all of my clients are off or not answering their phones so I'm kind of bored at work today.  I love the old blue collar rods.  I've never had the opportunity to try say a $4000 Thomas & Thomas "casting instrument" but  I suspect they're like fine wines.  A $100 bottle of wine is better than a $10 bottle of wine but not 10 times better.

 The method I use is slow but it works, especially for someone like me who only want's to make a few personal use rods.  If you plan on building more than a few it may be worth investing in a pro set up.   If you are willing to spend the money there are definitely quicker and more efficient ways of wrapping rods/drying rods. 

Here is a photo of the stand - I made it out of scrap wood and it couldn't be simpler. A base with 2 uprights, notch cut outs at the top and some foam inserted that the rod fits snugly into to keep tension on it while I wrap. 

 As for my wrapping method I'm using the ultra technical coffee cup and book method shown in this video link starting at 8:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgzTE4fe7d8

Varnishing and drying is the one area where there is a lot of difference of opinion by the pros.  Some of them do get really technical, utilizing custom made drying ovens at very specific temperatures along with specific formulas for thinning the spar varnish.  Others make dryers out of a length of PVC and a hair dryer. Brian of the Olde English Fly Shop recommends hanging the blank in a warm room prior to any components being added and to apply varnish so that it runs down and drips off the bottom into a bucket.  The guide wraps are varnished or epoxied at the end of the build.   At the other end of the drying spectrum is the old school method of applying the varnish to a finished rod in the wrapping stand, turning it a quarter turn every 15 minutes until the varnish got tacky enough not to run.  This is the method I use, yes it's slow but it's also simple, doesn't cost anything and it yielded pretty good results on my previous 2 rods.  My new blank arrived all ready varnished, which was good- one less thing.   I can tell you the pros take a lot of pride in producing a flawless finish on their rods and after varnishing a couple myself I have learned how difficult a "perfect" rod finish can be to achieve.  

Honestly I think anyone with the skill set to be able to tie flies can finish a fly rod from a blank.  It's not that difficult just slow and just like tying flies the quality of the finished product is directly proportionate to how much time and effort you want to spend getting it perfect. 

Rod building is time consuming, even if your not starting from scratch.  Still if you enjoy the process it can be a lot of fun and it has it's rewards.  Here is a before and after (just before I wrapped the guides) of one of my previous rods. 

 

[niveker 0]

@DFoster - thanks for the photos and additional explanation.  Simple but functional is exactly what I'm looking for.  Beautiful rebuilt on that rod, btw.  

 

[vicrider 0]

I really got into bamboo a few years ago and now have a fairly full lineup of various weights. I bought a blank from a builder on a bamboo board I frequent and wrapped it with single foot guides. Kind of a break with tradition but really believe they're better performing than the standard guides. I have a quad 8wt., a penta 3 and 6 weight, and a standard 6 flat companion rod with two butt sections and two tips, one a 4 and one a 5. I have a couple of others I'll probably move on since the ones listed are what I use for the most part. 

Don't know if you've checked out the  classicflyrodforum.com  but it is dedicated to all bamboo all the time with a lot of top builders willing to help with any questions you might have.

classicflyrodforum.com/forum

 

[Sandan 0]

@DFoster, keep the pics and process progress coming. Great work so far. Personally I haven't fished anything but cane for at least 5 years. "boo is where it's at, for me anyhow. Vic beat me to it check out the link he posted. That board knows bamboo!   I only have 3 bamboo rods, so far, but the 4th one being made is almost ready. 

[bdngrd 0]

I am a new bamboo builder as well, working on my 5th rod. It is a lesson in patience and humility! I love the plane work, but my hand gets pretty sore. Please keep posting and more pics too! Even of the porterhouses!

[DFoster 0]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:22 PM, vicrider said:

I really got into bamboo a few years ago and now have a fairly full lineup of various weights. I bought a blank from a builder on a bamboo board I frequent and wrapped it with single foot guides. Kind of a break with tradition but really believe they're better performing than the standard guides. I have a quad 8wt., a penta 3 and 6 weight, and a standard 6 flat companion rod with two butt sections and two tips, one a 4 and one a 5. I have a couple of others I'll probably move on since the ones listed are what I use for the most part. 

Don't know if you've checked out the  classicflyrodforum.com  but it is dedicated to all bamboo all the time with a lot of top builders willing to help with any questions you might have.

classicflyrodforum.com/forum

 

 

20 hours ago, Sandan said:

@DFoster, keep the pics and process progress coming. Great work so far. Personally I haven't fished anything but cane for at least 5 years. "boo is where it's at, for me anyhow. Vic beat me to it check out the link he posted. That board knows bamboo!   I only have 3 bamboo rods, so far, but the 4th one being made is almost ready. 

 

14 hours ago, bdngrd said:

I am a new bamboo builder as well, working on my 5th rod. It is a lesson in patience and humility! I love the plane work, but my hand gets pretty sore. Please keep posting and more pics too! Even of the porterhouses!

Thanks for all encouraging words!  I became familiar with classicflyrodforum.com back when I restored my first rod and I couldn't agree with you guys more about their knowledge.  I did a lot of research on how to restore old bamboo back then.

bdngrd-  It sounds like your building from scratch which qualifies you as a "rod builder".  I am simply finishing a pre made blank as a way to avoid the expense of buying a finished bamboo rod(s).  You are 100% correct about patience and humility.  It reminds me of back when I was first learning the basics of fly tying.  I'd watch a guy like Davie McPhail and say "that doesn't look so hard" until I tried myself.  The masters make it look so easy.

I'm trying to get every thing on this rod as perfect as I can so the process is really slow.  Here's a few photos.

 

Installing the winding check and thread wraps

 

Measuring for guide placement and taping the guides

Wrapping the 1st guide, only 15 more to go!  

[Sandan 0]

Very nice!!!

 

[SalarMan 0]

Just so much fun to follow...great stuff!!! 👍👍

[vicrider 0]

Are you filing the tips to a flat on your guides? Really important to allow line to roll up guide without a bump. I have a couple of rods tied by a true master of the game and it totally amazes me how the guides have equal amount of wraps on side of guide, guides on each tip match each other perfectly, intermittents have equal amount of wraps to each one. I know you're working to get your rod to the best of your ability but the builders who regularly get in excess of $2K for rods have built many, many rods and their near perfection in guide wraps, ferrule fitting, and rod finish are unbelievable.

Don't know how you plan to finish your threads on the guides but I have never had any of mine come up to my liking. I've tried various thread locks, color preservers, and leaving them go clear without preserver and none of them work to my liking. Don't forget too that most builders have a dip tube to finish their rods in a motor that lifts rod sections at a specific speed. We just do the best we can and enjoy fishing them knowing we did it, even if we did buy the blank.

 

[chugbug27 0]

Fun

[niveker 0]

Very nice, DF, thanks for the progress report.  I like your bobbin holder, I'll have to remember that.  

Now for a dumb question:

As the ferrules have not been installed, when measuring for guide placement, do you account for any extra space for the ferrules when finished? 

+ 3 on the classic fly rod forum, btw.  An astounding amount of knowledge on that board.  

 

 

[skeet3t 0]

22 hours ago, DFoster said:

 

 

Thanks for all encouraging words!  I became familiar with classicflyrodforum.com back when I restored my first rod and I couldn't agree with you guys more about their knowledge.  I did a lot of research on how to restore old bamboo back then.

bdngrd-  It sounds like your building from scratch which qualifies you as a "rod builder".  I am simply finishing a pre made blank as a way to avoid the expense of buying a finished bamboo rod(s).  You are 100% correct about patience and humility.  It reminds me of back when I was first learning the basics of fly tying.  I'd watch a guy like Davie McPhail and say "that doesn't look so hard" until I tried myself.  The masters make it look so easy.

I'm trying to get every thing on this rod as perfect as I can so the process is really slow.  Here's a few photos.

 

Installing the winding check and thread wraps

 

Measuring for guide placement and taping the guides

Wrapping the 1st guide, only 15 more to go!  

15 guides? How long is the blank? Back just after the earth cooled, I used a formula that was on the old rod building forum. It was a spreadsheet that one entered the info and printed it off for the record. I found it to be very, very reliable. Basic formula was one guide for each foot plus one and gave the spacing from the tip top.

[DFoster 0]

7 hours ago, vicrider said:

Are you filing the tips to a flat on your guides? Really important to allow line to roll up guide without a bump. I have a couple of rods tied by a true master of the game and it totally amazes me how the guides have equal amount of wraps on side of guide, guides on each tip match each other perfectly, intermittents have equal amount of wraps to each one. I know you're working to get your rod to the best of your ability but the builders who regularly get in excess of $2K for rods have built many, many rods and their near perfection in guide wraps, ferrule fitting, and rod finish are unbelievable.

Don't know how you plan to finish your threads on the guides but I have never had any of mine come up to my liking. I've tried various thread locks, color preservers, and leaving them go clear without preserver and none of them work to my liking. Don't forget too that most builders have a dip tube to finish their rods in a motor that lifts rod sections at a specific speed. We just do the best we can and enjoy fishing them knowing we did it, even if we did buy the blank.

 

Thanks VC- Yes I have been filing the guide edges which proved somewhat difficult.  The small guides are especially tough to get ahold off without ruining the finish. I originally intended to file them absolutely flat be the first one ended up being sharp and was cutting the thread so I opted to leave a blunt raised edge.  It seems to be working well.

I also have yet to end up with guide wraps that I'm really happy with.  The locking wraps haven't been too much of a problem for me but the color preserver has been awful.  On my other rods it darken the green and brown thread immediately and I thought ok it's still wet so maybe when it dries it will lighten- nope.  After 4 coats of color preserver I covered the wraps with spar varnish and they turned black.  Fortunately black was OK but it wasn't really the look I wanted.  From talking with those who know a lot more than I the prevailing opinion is that I was sold preserver for nylon and not silk which is what I used.  So for this project I was careful about the preserver I ordered and made Brian repeat to me on the phone that it was for silk.  I intend to give them 6 coats making sure to work it in everywhere and letting each one dry for a day.  We'll see.  

I know I can't equal the finish that a pro with decades of experience building with a dedicated work shop and tools can.  Those guys are amazing and I think the only way you get to that level is by wrapping hundreds of guides.  There are tricks to the trade that I'm sure I'm not aware of.   Still with the knowledge I do have I believe that I can end up with a decent finish.  Worst case I'll take it all apart and try again.  The main objective is to end up with a good casting and fishable rod.  

I wasn't happy with the winding check so I decided to redo that. Here are a few pics of where I'm at.

[DFoster 0]

1 hour ago, skeet3t said:

15 guides? How long is the blank? Back just after the earth cooled, I used a formula that was on the old rod building forum. It was a spreadsheet that one entered the info and printed it off for the record. I found it to be very, very reliable. Basic formula was one guide for each foot plus one and gave the spacing from the tip top.

Hi Skeet it's a 2 piece rod but because it's bamboo there are 2 tips.  Each tip has 7 guides.  Here is the spacing info- highlighted for 3wt 7' 6".