Muskrat Dubbing

[mrgramps 0]

How many of you still use Muskrat Dubbing?

With all of the newer dubbings on the market, you just don't hear about it being used very much by tiers.

What are your Pro's and Con's about muskrat dubbing?

 

 

 

[SilverCreek 0]

Natural muskrat fur has both the soft underfur and the spiky guard hairs.

So when you clip the fur at the skin and pull out the guard hairs, you have dry fly dubbing. When you include the guard hairs you have nymph dubbing.

[WWKimba 0]

I use muskrat (or any other fur) that a pattern calls for - I'm a bit old school.  I do have to say that why these different furs were used originally was because most people hunted and fished to feed their families and used EVERYTHING!  They ate the meat and kept the fur/feathers to tie with.  If you look in the news you'll that snout to tail buying/eating is coming back in vogue.  Oh, and the reason that a particular pattern mentions a fur or hair from the animal and not just say for example "grey dubbing" is that the color AS WELL AS the texture and action of that fur was what was needed.  This is something many tyers that started after the late '50's started losing as a skill - knowing not just the color but the action in and reaction to the water.

Sorry, I needed to adjust my soapbox!

Here are some examples for some newer tyers as well as others who may not know this        ;

 - the reason that patterns will call for silk is because how it reacts in the water.  The classic Partridge and Orange pattern uses orange silk beacause when wet the silk turns an olive tint!  I think you'll see that it was not designed as an attractor but as an true immature insect in the water!

 - mole hair is translucent that's why when it is dubbed and wet the thread color glows - yes glows, though giving the fly a more lifelike appearance.  There's a famous old pattern (that my infamous OLD brain can't think of the fly's name!) another soft hackle that uses fl. orange thread and moles fur for just that reason.

There are others but I hope that you see my point.  Lastly, enjoy tying!  I've been tying for over 50 years and ALWAYS love to pick up new things about this fabulous hobby!  And don't worry if you don't know it all - NONE of us do!

Kim

 

[niveker 0]

16 hours ago, mrgramps said:

Pro's and Con's about muskrat dubbing?

I have a  few patches of tanned muskrat as well as an untanned hide.  The skins are relatively cheap and will last a long long time, the color of the underfur is a very nice slate gray, very fine, and is somewhat water repellent if you get it untanned, although not nearly as repellent as synthetics or some other natural dubbings like kapok.  It makes a good mixer for more stubborn materials.  Its supposed to be nice when bleached, but I have not done tried that yet.  Guard hairs are brown, relatively sparse, make good tails, and have a nice sheen to them.  As silvercreek says, it makes a nice buggy dubbing with the guard hairs mixed in, and if not dubbed too tightly will catch small air bubbles on a nymph.    

Reasons I don't think its used much: marketing, its easier for a tyer to open up a back of dubbing than to store an animal skin and take the time to prep the fur off the hide, most tiers aren't aware of and/or aren't interested in any traditions in fly tying, and same goes for those buying the flies.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  

[WWKimba 0]

Oh, and the belly has a nice cream underfur as well, but it is hard to find.  Just like the grey underfur, it is a nice tying material.  And it is a nice cream fur throughout.

Kim

[niveker 0]

6 minutes ago, WWKimba said:

the belly has a nice cream underfur

The belly underfur on my skin is gray with cream tips, so a lighter, or creamy gray, when mixed.  Is your's a kit?

[Jaydub 0]

I use it mostly on some old school patterns that I still use. Adams, Rosborough's Muskrat Nymph and Casual Dress etc. 

It's excellent any time you need gray dubbing and can be mixed with synthetics to give a little sparkle. 

[Mark Knapp 0]

I like it very much. It makes a great dubbing noodle.

[Sandan 0]

Agree with all that's been said.  

[SalarMan 0]

Like Sandan, I agree with all that's been said. I use VERY LITTLE if any synthetics. In my opinion natural furs make for much better and effective flies...and they are not made from some chemical/oil based product.

[mrgramps 0]

I would like to thank everyone for their reply's about muskrat dubbing.

Back around 1973 I purchased an ounce of sheared blended muskrat dubbing fur which I

still have and use to this day. That ounce of fur seen a lot of flies come from it when I was tying

semi-commercial and till this day.

 It's my favorite for Adams and other patterns, both wet and dry styles that call for this color. This ounce of fur didn't have much guard

hair in it and when I use it on a fly I get a very nice smooth tapered  body.

 

[Sandan 0]

2 hours ago, SalarMan said:

Like Sandan, I agree with all that's been said. I use VERY LITTLE if any synthetics. In my opinion natural furs make for much better and effective flies...and they are not made from some chemical/oil based product.

To add, natural furs aren't just one consistent color the way synthetics are.  There was a tier back in the day, John Atherton, who was also an artist (painter) he used natural dubbing and hackled his flies for just that reason. Insects being natural aren't just one color. A "gray" mayfly is actually a multitude of shades that give an overall impression of "gray".  Makes total sense to me.  "John Atherton (1900 – 1952) was an artist by trade and incorporated his impressionistic art into the flies he tied. "   

Not to hijack the thread but here's a bit about John Atherton (click on the grey box to see the flies if they don't show)

Atherton #1

[mvendon 0]

I use a lot of it for mainly one pattern, the Ausable Ugly. All sizes of brown trout just love that pattern and its usually the first one that I tie on if I don't see any specific hatch that the fish are targeting.

Regards,

                  Mark

[niveker 0]

Excellent info, @Sandan, great links.  

[Swamp Fly 0]

I grew up mostly in the Hampton Roads area of VA.  There was a tackle/hunting shop close to "downtown" Newport News that was probably already there when Sir Walter Raleigh was stomping around the area and eyeballing Pocahontas.  The place sold everything from marlin gear to BB guns.  What they also did was buy raw dried furs from trappers, it really was a trading post. I did not know this at first so I was surprised when I asked if they had muskrat fur dubbing that the sales employee kind of chuckled and said he'd be right back.  He came back with this long flat cone like form that looked like it was made of oil paper.  It wasn't until he handed the thing to me that I realized it was a muskrat hide still inside out from being on a stretcher.  I think it cost me around $4. I still have it and you can barely tell I've used it.  I have tied I don't know how many casual dress nymphs from it. The casual dress nymph was my goto for sunfish/bluegill as a kid (VA is not far enough south for them to be called bream!).  Boy do I wish I had bought other furs but I was still wet behind the ears and didn't have the foresight. Sigh.  I have been racking my brain while typing this to remember the name of the shop but I'm drawing a blank, sorry, I'm pretty sure they were on Jefferson ave.  Hadn't thought about that in years.  I'm working on a bream/bass box and I think I'll tie up some casual dress nymphs to throw into it just for the sake of catching some bream on them once again.

 

Swamp