Adhesives for Living Eyes on EP Fiber

[FlyTieGuyFL 0]

I need some feedback on what works to keep Living Eyes on EP fiber bait fish.  I've tried Zap Goo applied to the eyes and set on the EP Fiber, and Loctite Super Glue Gel Control applied to the EP Fiber with the Living Eye set into it.  In both cases the eyes are secure after gluing, but when I've used the flies, the eyes slide off after a couple of casts, almost like the glue is dissolved.  Anyone else have this problem and any recommendations?  Thanks.

[Mark Knapp 0]

I have had the same problem with many eyes and many fibers.

The problem is that the adhesive (the sticky back) that comes on the stick-on eyes acts as a barrier for the "real" glue to work.

The solution is, you need to use epoxy or resin under the eye and more over the eye to encapsulate it. Many tiers create a whole head with resin, bed the eye in it and cover the eye with more resin.

[ScienceGuy141 0]

Have you tried using tab eyes?

[Philly 0]

I don't use EP fibers a bit to coarse for my purposes.  I do pretty much the same thing Mark does.  The Living eyes will stick to the material, and I have a fine tip applicator I use to put the UV resin around the edges, cure it to lock them in place.   Then I build the head with the resin.  In the first picture, the eye is about 2/3's covered and fully covered in the second picture.

[johnnyquahog 0]

It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye, so to speak.  Chris Helm turned me on to Beacon 527 found  in the crafts section of Walmart. It has a smaller nozzle than the shoe-goo type toluene based products, it is safer to use in the house and is just as effective.  Enrico uses a cautery tool to burn a few fibers away and uses a bodkin to get a dollop of adhesive to the shank of the hook. Then he seats the eye into the adhesive. You should see a halo of the adhesive around the eye.  Of course he uses the hard plastic eyes but the technique is important.  The adhesive should not dissolve as you described is happening to your fly.  I’ve lost a few eyes but not before the fly was chewed on pretty good. I recall doing well on one eyed flies too.

[caloosa bug 0]

I’ve been using gel superglue, of any kind. Then coating the head in liquid fusion. Small amounts at a time.  Too much at once and you’ll fight a sliding glob. Push some down into the head and behind the eyes with a bodkin on the first coat.  Then let dry. Depending on head shape and size, subsequent coats can be added with attention to covering the outer rim of the eye and having the fibers positioned as needed. There is time to pull off anything that curls or falls on to the eye, and reposition before it starts to thicken. Maybe 3-4 minutes.  Once that starts leave it be, or it will glob and cloud.  

I’ve been through one and a half 4 oz bottles in 8 years. It’s good stuff, with no smell. Flexible and clear. My eyes survive tree limbs, rocks, signs, and concrete.  Wanting to get some uv, but haven’t bothered yet. 

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

I long ago quit using any kind of holographic or stick on eyes... since you can rarely have them stay on a fly once you actually start using it - unless you're willing as noted above to coat them... They look great, and I still have a bunch of them in half a dozen different sizes but, like I said... I quit using them.  You can get them to stick but here's what you have to do... First take each eye and remove the adhesive layer using a a cloth or paper towel with a bit of lacquer thinner to remove that thin layer of sticky stuff... Now you actually have something that glue will stick to.  The glue I use is called Fletch-Tite - it comes in a tube with a perfect applicator for placing a single dot of glue where you want it.... Fletch-Tite is the glue that folks who make their own arrows use to attach the fletching (the feathers)... You can find it at any Bass Pro shop - or anywhere that sells archery supplies  - or just go to E-Bay and find it there.... 

 

Now for a few tricks that will actually attach eyes to flies that are durable and will stay on for almost the life of the fly... Place that tiny dot of glue wherever you want the eye then only glue on one eye at a time, clamping each eye with a mini clamp or just a spring clothes pin until it sets up (about five minutes) then do the other side in the same fashion... I get really good, durable result with this method for some years now - but like I said, I quit using those stick on eyes entirely... What I use are called hard plastic doll eyes (they come in millimeter sizes with white, yellow, orange, and red backgrounds).  Each eye comes with a plastic stem that I clip off flush (they're what Enrico Puglisi uses on all of his flies - that's what gave me the idea to try them in the first place...).  Here are a few pics of the results... 

Finger mullet flies with large doll eyes

Seaducer variation with small doll eyes

Now for a pic of an older fly -back when I was using stick-on holographic eyes.... that rarely lasted an hour or so before one side or the other went missing (and that was before the fly got bit... This same pattern now sports the exact same sized eye that the Seaducer, above, does...

Blacklight Special in size #2

[FlyTieGuyFL 0]

Thanks!  Great lookin flies with the doll eyes.  Any advice on where to purchase them in quantity?  Also, what is that wire you are using for a weed guard?  I appreciate it.

[Flat Rock native 0]

11 minutes ago, FlyTieGuyFL said:

Thanks!  Great lookin flies with the doll eyes.  Any advice on where to purchase them in quantity?  Also, what is that wire you are using for a weed guard?  I appreciate it.

Welcome to the forum!

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Doll eyes are available at many fly shops (Wapsi has a great assortment that any shop can choose from). They’re also available at most craft or hobby for folks making dolls and/or toys...

The wire I use to make weed guards is simply stainless steel trolling wire, Coffee colored, commonly available in any tackle shop that caters to saltwater anglers as well as catalogs serving the same customers.  I use #5 wire for hooks larger than #1, #4 wire for hooks smaller, down to size four, and #3 wire for even smaller hooks.  I contributed to a thread on this site on how each guard is made and used in the tying process if you look for it.

The brand wire I use is Malin’s...

[rscconrad 0]

Learned from someone else but 3d fabric paint works great and is dirt cheap. The to good to be true part is it take a while to dry

[vicente 0]

I use stick fast flexible ca glue, it's the best glue I've used for fly tying by far, I glue the eye on them coat over the top with the flex ca glue.

[MckinneyLonghorn 0]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:07 PM, caloosa bug said:

I’ve been using gel superglue, of any kind. Then coating the head in liquid fusion. Small amounts at a time.  Too much at once and you’ll fight a sliding glob. Push some down into the head and behind the eyes with a bodkin on the first coat.  Then let dry. Depending on head shape and size, subsequent coats can be added with attention to covering the outer rim of the eye and having the fibers positioned as needed. There is time to pull off anything that curls or falls on to the eye, and reposition before it starts to thicken. Maybe 3-4 minutes.  Once that starts leave it be, or it will glob and cloud.  

I’ve been through one and a half 4 oz bottles in 8 years. It’s good stuff, with no smell. Flexible and clear. My eyes survive tree limbs, rocks, signs, and concrete.  Wanting to get some uv, but haven’t bothered yet. 

 

caloosa,

About how long are you letting the Liquid Fusion dry before you put on a new coat? I know the bottle says to let it set for up to 24 hours to get the best results, but I assume you are not waiting that long. Thanks. 

[caloosa bug 0]

McKinney,  

 Actually, I am giving 24 hours now. I’ll dab some on the bottom of the head from hook eye to the rear of the stick on eye and set it on a stand upside down.  After 10-20 minutes, I’ll do the same on the top. The following day I’ll do another small amount on the bottom, let it sit for 10-20 minutes, then the top and a thin layer over the entire eye to finish. I rotate them quite often on this coat because it will sag on the eyes before it thickens and sets.

I have re-coated after 20-30 minutes with no real issues and is perfectly fine. But, I think waiting a day between coats gives a clearer and stronger finish and lets the first coat penetrate deeper. It is also easier to get the shape desired by waiting.  If you do 2 coats in one sitting, you’ll notice that the next day your perfectly shaped head has condensed and another coat may be needed to get back the desired shape.  In thin layers it dries to the touch in a few minutes , but after 12 hours or so it’ll shrink to half the original size.

 

 

[MckinneyLonghorn 0]

20 hours ago, caloosa bug said:

McKinney,  

 Actually, I am giving 24 hours now. I’ll dab some on the bottom of the head from hook eye to the rear of the stick on eye and set it on a stand upside down.  After 10-20 minutes, I’ll do the same on the top. The following day I’ll do another small amount on the bottom, let it sit for 10-20 minutes, then the top and a thin layer over the entire eye to finish. I rotate them quite often on this coat because it will sag on the eyes before it thickens and sets.

I have re-coated after 20-30 minutes with no real issues and is perfectly fine. But, I think waiting a day between coats gives a clearer and stronger finish and lets the first coat penetrate deeper. It is also easier to get the shape desired by waiting.  If you do 2 coats in one sitting, you’ll notice that the next day your perfectly shaped head has condensed and another coat may be needed to get back the desired shape.  In thin layers it dries to the touch in a few minutes , but after 12 hours or so it’ll shrink to half the original size.

 

 

Gotcha, Thanks. I constantly fight with keeping eyes on so I am going to give this a shot. I have used Liquid Fusion to stick them on but never did an overcoat.