Wetsock 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2017 Is there a reference for how much lead wire weighs? Regulation says no more then 1/8 oz can be added to fly. Trying to figure out what length of 0.030 wire that would be equal to. Getting ready to fish Salmon river NY end of March Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2017 maybe this helps? http://www.jsflyfishing.com/blog/weighted-nymphs-tungsten-wire-vs-lead-wire/ or Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wetsock 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 That helped a lot thanks. If I figure correctly 1ft of 0.030 would weigh about 0.5g. So it would take about 7ft to equal 1/8 oz. I tried a scale and 6" was < 1g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 The thing that so many seem to either forget or not realise in the first place is that weight does not cause a fly to sink! Density does. Put enough lightweight materials on a hook with a tungsten bead and it will still float. You will have difficulty getting 1/8 oz of lead onto any "normal" size hook. Maybe some of the larger hooks used for salt water or pike could take that much, but not trout sizes. Think about the overall design of the fly, Make the whole thing to sink and you will not need to put much lead on at all. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Saarinen 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 Does that river have a floating lines only rule? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 Crackaig ... Although I understand the differences between weight, mass and density, I do not fully agree with your statement. All things being equal between two flies, all the same material, tied to look exactly the same. Wrap one hook shank with lead and leave the other unweighted. The one wrapped with lead will sink faster. So, if you have a pattern you like the look of, but you want it to sink more, a few wraps of lead can make that happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mylobass 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 Does that river have a floating lines only rule? Do you guys really have rules like no more than 1/8oz. and WF lines only? I'm always amazed that in a 'free country' we have sections of water only usable to fly fishermen or that all waters are not free to all citizens.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishinguy 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 Do you guys really have rules like no more than 1/8oz. and WF lines only? I'm always amazed that in a 'free country' we have sections of water only usable to fly fishermen or that all waters are not free to all citizens.... http://www.fishsalmonriver.com/Regulations Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Saarinen 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 Differen't salmon rivers have all kinds of crazy rules that come & go! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phg 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2017 These are anti-snagging/snatching rules. An 1/8 oz jig has a pretty good sized head. We use them for shad flies, and they can be a bear to cast! Also, the 1/2" gape restricts you to a size 2 or smaller hook. You shouldn't have a problem if you wind a single layer of 0.30 lead on a size 2 salmon hook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Crackaig ... Although I understand the differences between weight, mass and density, I do not fully agree with your statement. All things being equal between two flies, all the same material, tied to look exactly the same. Wrap one hook shank with lead and leave the other unweighted. The one wrapped with lead will sink faster. So, if you have a pattern you like the look of, but you want it to sink more, a few wraps of lead can make that happen. That is more or less in line with what I said. But if both flies are tied with an excess of light weight materials neither will sink. Though the one with lead will ride lower. The point still stands that just adding lead is only part of what you need to make a fly sink. You want to consider the sinking rate at each stage of tying. Things like using heavier gauge hooks, materials that wick water quickly becoming soaked. Or those that do not absorb water at all. In your example would the fly with the lead wire added be bulkier than the one without? If not then what replaces the bulk of the lead in the fly without the lead? Or will the one with lead added not be bulkier? If so where can I buy some of this no bulk lead wire? I think I see what you are saying, but I still say that it is the increase in density that comes from adding lead wire (or any other weight). If that is not the case why do large steel hulled ships float? Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoebop 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 The bulk of a fly adds resistance. Resistance will make a fly harder to sink. Think of standing on top of your car going 70 mph. The less bulk, the easier it will be to sink the fly. So...your sink rate is determined by 1. weight 2. bulk 3. speed of current. If you are fishing a fly in a drift free manner (even if there is a swift current), it will sink more quickly than say a streamer witch is fished against the current. Once a fly reaches the end of the drift, it will rise in the current and the bulk of the fly plus the line will overcome any amount of weight added. Does that make sense? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joshpilon08 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I fish the salmon river all the time. Most of my flies are unweighted. And ones with weight, have very minimal weight to them. Then again do what you feel is necessary, I've never seen the DEC walking around with scales in their pockets 😂 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Bob LeMay 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Since I'm both a fly tyer and a lure maker I have a ready handle on just what you can cast with a given fly line. I doubt anyone would attempt to cast something with 1/8 oz of lead on it (at least not more than once...). For my own purposes when adding lead to a hook for fly tying I rarely ever use more than 1/2" of .040 square lead wire to the shank of a 1/0 hook (and that 1/0 size is considerably bigger than anything a freshwater angler would use for trout (correct me if I'm wrong...). Here's a pic or two comparing the different sized lead headed jigs I tie up... The smallest is a 1/8, the next 1/4, the last 3/8oz... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flat Rock native 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 I fish the salmon river all the time. Most of my flies are unweighted. And ones with weight, have very minimal weight to them. Then again do what you feel is necessary, I've never seen the DEC walking around with scales in their pockets Our local Joe Pickett's (C.J. Box vernacular for warden) are usually not seen at all. But they are watching, with spotting scopes and filming with zoom lenses, and for instance if one is caught using worms in the "lures and flies only" waters, one is getting their equipment seized and a citation. After being found guilty, one is getting a big fine, jail if a prior criminal record, and all hunting and fishing privileges revoked for three years. I know Josh is joking... But our judges have zero sense of humor about these violations. A local guy got fined $17,000.00 in 2014, among the other penalties, for illegally taking an elk... So it pays to know and follow the rules And I think and hope I am preaching to the choir Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
