Extreme hackle cup issue

[AKMac 0]

Hey all,

 

I'm encountering an issue that I'm wondering if anyone has any tips for.

 

I own whiting bronze dry fly capes. On almost all of them when I get into the size 16 and smaller the hackle barbs cup inwards very sharply. Almost to the of forming a flat circle. When I try to tie these in, the hackle will want to lay flat and form two sets of barbs on each wrap (like a U shape).

 

I have always stripped the barbs, face the shiny side forward. But no matter how I orient it (shiny side back or forward), I seem to get a big mess once the hackle lays flat.

 

I tried to take some pictures to show what I'm talking about.

[AKMac 0]

A picture of my hackle. It's profile is circular.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Did you try to steam the cape?

[Piker20 0]

Id also say steam it.

[Bugsy 0]

Sometimes, you can work around this by wrapping the offending hackle over a base layer of dubbing. The dubbing base must be an even and relatively tight layer,...or the results may be worse. Steam can be used to restore feathers deformed from their natural shape or condition; but since cupping is a genetic issue, I doubt steam will help at all.

[DrLogik 0]

I'd call Whiting and ask for a replacement before steaming or doing anything else to the neck.

[Lucian.Vasies 0]

probably the stem is too stiff and the barbs too thick .I bought and used a lot of capes from Whiting and some of them had this problem. Try to contact your local shop or dealer , probably they will replace that cape

[rockworm 0]

This can be a problem with any neck feather (not saddle) if you are trying to use the lowest part of the feather. Strip off the barbs from the bottom quarter or so until the rachis (stem) is nice and thin. I also note from your photograph that the stem butt is facing forward over the eye, parallel to the hook shank. This could be the real source of your problem. The feather should be tyed in at a 45 degree angle (more or less) so the butt will be slanting down on the tyer's side of the fly. When you do this, orient the feather so the shiny side is facing forwards, not upwards as it is in your photo.

[flytire 0]

show us a feather plucked off the cape

 

i always strip off fibers and tie on only the stem. then i lift the hackle to vertical and wrap forward

 

what happens to the remaining tied down stem should have no effect on the wrapped hackle. its tied down and cant twist or go anywhere

 

you can see the hackle stem in my photo below

 

 

i use #3 whiting and older hoffman capes and even the tiniest of feathers are flat and not cupped

[AKMac 0]

I have attached photos of a plucked feather. I did try steaming a feather, but all that did was straighten the feather and did nothing for the cupping.

 

So is this normal, or am I being picky on trying to create perfect hackle collars?

[Bugsy 0]

Thus the steam returned the feather to its natural state: straight AND cupped.

[m_grieb 0]

Listen to bugsy... He hit it right on the head. It has nothing to do with hiw youre tying. Just a genetic trait of the bird it came from. Steam wont fix it.call them and see if theyll give you a new one

[flytire 0]

i fail to see the problem of cupping with that feather

 

more importantly is how does it wrap around a hook, not how it comes off of the bird

 

tie an actual fly, not 1/2 of a wrap like in your original post and see how it wraps

[josephcsylvia 0]

I know you said you strip the barbs, but do you strip a couple extra on the hook side to coach it into tying straight?

[JSzymczyk 0]

A lot of folks seem to be missing your point. NO - that is not normal for hackle, especially feathers as expensive as Whiting. All feathers are going to have some "natural" shape to the barbs, but not that. The Whiting capes I have and have seen have nice flat barbs. What you pictured is crap. Demand a replacement.

 

If I'm correct the closeup of the feather in his fingertips is THE WHOLE FEATHER viewed end-on, not just the stem. No tying method is going to fix that.