Head Cement

[flytyerinpa 0]

I posted a question a while back about the heads on my flys turning white even thou I use black tying thread, I tied up a couple flies today and took notice the Lacquer didn't seem to sink into the thread, it got me wondering maybe if my lacquer is to thick and not being absorbed into the head maybe water is seeping into the back of the fly by the hackle and turning the head white . I was wondering what you guys thoughts were on this ? Is it possible ? I'm fishing for an answer here guys its driving me crazy .

[vicente 0]

I have had the same issue with a couple head cements. Right now I'm using Loon hard head and it's been great no problems, you can also use super glue.

[Dave G. 0]

I posted a question a while back about the heads on my flys turning white even thou I use black tying thread, I tied up a couple flies today and took notice the Lacquer didn't seem to sink into the thread, it got me wondering maybe if my lacquer is to thick and not being absorbed into the head maybe water is seeping into the back of the fly by the hackle and turning the head white . I was wondering what you guys thoughts were on this ? Is it possible ? I'm fishing for an answer here guys its driving me crazy .

You stated lacquer so I assume it's solvent based head cement.. You could thin it yourself or just buy a $2 bottle of Sally's Hard As Nails. But head cement does thicken up over time, be that the official branded stuff or Sally's. I just put in a few drops of my wife's pure acetone fingernail polish remover to thin it. Even so, I never saw where thickened head cement turned white. I have seen one brand of super glue do that though ( I don't recall the brand, it was decades ago now but I want to think it was Krazy Glue's original formula in the green cylindrical bottle with a wand applicator).

[flytire 0]

are you possibly using a waxed thread?

 

a syrupy consistency of your head cement? it should be thin almost like water to penetrate

 

show us a photo of what it looks like

[flytyerinpa 0]

I will have to get a hold of my daughter and take a pic or two and post it on here.

[Idaho RC 0]

My head cement is wood finishing lacquer. I thinned it enough so it looked about right to me and it works great. I would say it is slightly more viscous than water. I put it in one of the needle applicator jars. One gallon is likely enough for about a zillion lifetimes.

[tidewaterfly 0]

 

 

are you possibly using a waxed thread?

 

I've also had heads turn white in the past, and waxed thread was the culprit. Apparently some cements are not compatible with the wax. Never had this problem with Sally Hansen's as a head cement.

[flytyerinpa 0]

Here is a pic of my flys with the heads turned white

[flytyerinpa 0]

Sorry guys having trouble getting the pic attached even had my daughter try it :-(

[brooktrout308 0]

Still didn't figure out how to post a pic yet, but any way I have come up with 2 ideas why my heads are turning white, the first one is possibly my head cement is a little to thick and not penetrating the threads, my other thought is it might be my own fault I was at a fly show a few years ago and there were 2 guys at the one booth selling fly tying material, the didn't have much and I really don't think they had any idea what they were doing. I got the feeling maybe a tier died and most of the good stuff was sold and they were trying to sell the rest of it just to get rid of it. They had a box of tying thread all sizes and all colors if I had to guess I would have to say there must have been a couple hundred spools in the box. The one guy walked over to me and said the thread was .10 cents a spool but they were not full spools. Hell for that price if I cant see the bottom of the spool its well .10 cents so I went through the box and found some colors I didn't have plus a lot of black thread, some 8/0, 6/0 70 Den. 140 Den. So I started thinking about it last night and sure enough a lot of it was Uni-Thread 6/0 W and 8/0 W so I guess I'm going to be getting some Hard As Nails I think Flytire hit the nail on the head with this problem.

[SilverCreek 0]

Head cement should dry clear regardless of the consistency. Thick head cement means some of the solvent has vaporized and with less solvent, the mixture gets naturally thicker. I've seen head cement yellow over time as it thickens but I have not see it turn white.

 

I would put a drop of it on some aluminum foil and see how it dries. If it dries white, you have your answer. Then it is bad cement and not bad thread. If the dries clear, then there is a chemical reaction between the thread and the cement.

[DrLogik 0]

As was previously stated it is important to keep the cement properly thinned. Also to, if you are using waxed thread that can have an adverse effect on some lacquer-based head cements. If you are using a water-based lacquer, right there could also be your problem. I have found over the years using a multitude of different head cements that some will not adhere to silk thread or other waxed threads and trap air between the thread and cement and leave what looks like a white appearance. If the cement dries a hazy appearance on the aluminum foil. yes you have your answer as something in the cement is "off".

 

One interesting note, I thinned an old bottle of Pro Lak the other day with lacquer thinner and it immediately turned from a light-yellow clear color to an opaque white color and solids settled to the bottom of the bottle. I've not seen this before and obviously there is an incompatibility with the cement and the thinner.

 

My preferred go-to lacquer-based head cement is still Pro Lak though. It is harder to source now but it is available from a good shop in Canada (https://algonquinflytying.com/). As was also stated, any good quality solvent-based lacquer will work just fine and so does Sally Hansen's. I just don't like the smell of Sally Hansen's all that much but it is really effective.

[Dave G. 0]

Sally's does stink that's for sure. Rumpf isn't as pungent but it costs a lot more. Rumpf though is my favorite if to buy official head cement but sally's works just as good even though with more odor. I've never had either product cloud up when applied over waxed thread. But I sometimes, many times, don't coat the head with head cement but apply the head cement to the thread before whip finishing. Either way neither has clouded. On my smallest flies I don't use head cement but apply wax to the thread instead, before the whip and never had them unravel on me..

[vicrider 0]

Head cement should dry clear regardless of the consistency. Thick head cement means some of the solvent has vaporized and with less solvent, the mixture gets naturally thicker. I've seen head cement yellow over time as it thickens but I have not see it turn white.

 

I would put a drop of it on some aluminum foil and see how it dries. If it dries white, you have your answer. Then it is bad cement and not bad thread. If the dries clear, then there is a chemical reaction between the thread and the cement.

Silver Creek, glad you posted. I'm having trouble (or not) with your UV which I use as head cement on steamers and steelhead flies. Your old formula goes on nice and cooks to a beautiful shiny head and in the UV light still shows jet black or whatever color I'm using. I have your new thinner formula and when I use that either by itself or over the the top of your first formula and hit it with the UV light it turns a milky white under the light. Take the light off and it's nice glossy black. Put the light on and it's milk colored again. Didn't think much about it until I got to thinking that it could be that in the sun if it turns that milky color it basically ruins the beautiful black, brown, etc. head color and make them all a dull, dirty white. Anybody of your other regulars bring this up to you and if not anyone on this thread run into this?

 

Nick

[flytire 0]

the end result is more important than anything else. the white may be some sort of phosphorescence