What does a true Cree hackle look like?

[barrytheguide 0]

Ok, lets ask this question, "What do you consider to be the Traditional Adams Pattern? "

 

I once fished with a grand old gentleman Co. Grey, who was in his nineties, he was a member of the D Day planning team, he only fished with two patterns in his box, a lot of them, Adams and Royal Wulff. Interesting all of his hooks were gold plated, real gold! Not sure of what the hackle was, but it looked liked Cree to me.

 

When I asked him why he wanted a guide since he had been fishing the Upper Sacramento for more years than I had been guiding, he replied " Lad, the only reason I need a guide is to help me in and out of the water, i'm to old to do it on my own" I didn't argue with him because of respect and also because he carried a 357 in his bag!

[williamhj 0]

Here is an article that lists an original recipe. Google the feathers listed and you'll see why we usually think of it with both grizzly and brown hackle feathers. Cree seems to imitate both these feathers together.

[barrytheguide 0]

Here is an article that lists an original recipe. Google the feathers listed and you'll see why we usually think of it with both grizzly and brown hackle feathers. Cree seems to imitate both these feathers together.

Very interesting article, but since there are no surviving flies and no surviving written pattern, it's all only guess work. If the original used two hackles when did the Cree pattern appear?

[SilverCreek 0]

Story of the Adams Dry Fly by John Falk, the grandson of Len Halliday. I think it is well established what the original Adams was. The story of Len Halliday with family photos and recollections. There are no competing versions as far as I know:

[mvendon 0]

You can see some original Adams flies tied by Halladay on this thread over at the Sparse Grey Matter forum.

 

http://www.sparsegreymatter.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6188&p=33061&hilit=adams#p33061

 

As to when folks started using Cree to sub for the grizzly and brown in an Adams, I have no idea. If you look at patterns going way back, it's not mentioned much at all as a required hackle color. The farthest back that I've seen off the top of my head is in John Atherton's 1951 Fly and the Fish book where me mentions light, medium, and dark Cree for some of his patterns.

 

Regards,

Mark

[rockworm 0]

This is only my opinion- but I think flies (like the Adams) look much better when a grizzly and a brown hackle are used. Especially when heavily-hackled. Cree, on the other hand, is useful when you want all those (5) colours but only want a collar with one or two wraps of the hackle.

[JSzymczyk 0]

There are surviving examples (thanks Mike) and it is always interesting to see any of these original classic patterns. They most often are not what what we want them to be.

 

Upper Sac? Barry, I didn't realize you were from Pelosistan. Sorry. Anyhow, brown and grizzly is the way to go.

 

I won't call it an Adams, but I've been tying a dry fly with the Whiting dark barred ginger (white black brown) for tail and hackle, gray body, and I've been very happy with it.

[barrytheguide 0]

There are surviving examples (thanks Mike) and it is always interesting to see any of these original classic patterns. They most often are not what what we want them to be.

 

Upper Sac? Barry, I didn't realize you were from Pelosistan. Sorry. Anyhow, brown and grizzly is the way to go.

 

I won't call it an Adams, but I've been tying a dry fly with the Whiting dark barred ginger (white black brown) for tail and hackle, gray body, and I've been very happy with it.

 

Not from Pelosistan, but from Hampshire in the UK, you know, the famous home of the British Chalk Steams. The Test and the Itchen if you don't know...

 

The early examples are very interesting, but heavily overdressed in my view. It seems that none of the current patterns come close to the original. Maybe all Variants?

[vicrider 0]

I've put those links on other boards also Silver Creek. One thing you'll notice if you watch all the way thru to video 3 is that the flies ties by his grandson (?) put the hackle behind the wings. Most of us today put hackle both in back of and in front of the wings. Tradition would say all hackle behind wings. Also note that he tied in two brown hackles and by the time he was done there was a lot of wild hackle sticking out everywhere on those flies. Like JS--- said, the old classics tied by the original tiers wouldn't win any modern fly tying contests.

 

How would anyone today like to tie with an old bait casting locked down for a bobbin, all hands on with no tools for anything except a vise, and I know a lot of people tied in hand (and some still do).

 

I don't think you'll find much mention of cree hackle before the advent of selective genetic breeding. It's still the most rare of colors and the most expensive.

[flytire 0]

 

how i perceived and tied the fly from the flyer above

 

 

how i tie the adams with a mix of brown and grizzly hackle

 

 

i think today's universally accepted standard hackle is mixed brown and grizzly for the tail and front hackles.

 

cree and the barred gingers are also universally accepted short cuts to tie an adams (variant)

 

some tyers may struggle with wrapping 2 front hackles and that's OK. that's when the cree and barred gingers can be helpful

 

museum quality flies - use the real thing

 

fishing flies - use whatever you want

 

teaching fly tying - teach using the universally accepted recipes but also teach about using substitutes and variations

[Piker20 0]

Norman, I know which I would tie on first if those two were both in my box. Top one just has that buggier look to it. I also like the look of the first one on that slightly longer shank, 200r?

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Back to talking about Cree (or Cree substitute) feathers.... Their chief virtue from a saltwater tyer's perspective is how well they match the colors of our most common shrimp, the brown shrimp... Just like the real thing there's quite a bit of variation in every Cree feather... Nothing matches the coloration of a brown shrimp (the most common bait shrimp found in bait tanks around our southern coasts) like Cree feathers -both saddles and necks. Since shrimp are a staple food for almost every inshore fish any fly that mimics them (even in the most casual way) will get attention with a proper presentation....

[rockworm 0]

 

I don't think you'll find much mention of cree hackle before the advent of selective genetic breeding. It's still the most rare of colors and the most expensive.

 

Cree is a natural variation found in wild stock and non-genetically-bred chickens. However, I think such a bird with greater than 60% cree feathers would be very rare.

[flytire 0]

Norman, I know which I would tie on first if those two were both in my box. Top one just has that buggier look to it. I also like the look of the first one on that slightly longer shank, 200r?

 

no on the 200r hook. i dont use them at all. i dont even own any

 

200r hooks are straight eyed, not down eyed.

 

the first 2 are the same fly tied on a dry fly hook

[Steiner 0]

Color half of a grizzly hackle brown with a marker.