Feather Emporium; Honest?? Anybody Using Them?

[Steeldrifter 0]

Keep the conversation to the topic at hand guys, you are all adults here so lets stop the bickering back & forth or we'll just lock it.

[mikechell 0]

Got it. Since I don't have any experience with FE ... I will bow out of this thread.

[djtrout 0]

David

 

Other than your website I am not familiar with your business and have not bought anything from you. I have no problems with you defending your business reputation at all either.

 

What I would have a problem with if I was a customer of yours is you posting the example of Robert MacLeod along with his email address on a public forum as well as telling people to be "careful with this guy" and mentioning his "dishonesty".

 

That is some seriously poor business practice. Why would I think my information would be confidential if I were to buy your products?

 

Bad form sir IMO.

 

Cheers

 

J

I agree. As a professional business consultant (retired) my input, Dave, is you have let the flames burn a little too long. Wrong forum for it, just not good form. Yours is the lot of every small fly fishing business - tough world. You and every shop owner or supplier out there are already better than I for gumption and fortitude. Some customers will be impossible; focus on what brings you success against your business plan and near and long term goals. Arguing on this forum does nothing for your image enhancement. Bad taste to return slam for slam on the internet; take a higher road. Not valid comparison to compare check posting in a brick and mortar. I have never found shaming to be an effective image-enhancing or business growth strategy (unless you're in politics, perhaps). I'm a private person, whereas I intend to use your business again, your willingness to throw customer info up on the net like this does concern me.

You're good. You got some good and maybe some bogus feedback. Your're a little guy, it's OK; you may not be so little in the near future, who knows? Keep on keepin on and you'll be fine. Learn when to drop it,

My feedback? no better than 2 cents worth ... guess I'm dogpiling on; I also agree this thread needs to end so I will not post anymore.

[djtrout 0]

 

but the cree (described as black-white-brown grizzly, popular where grizzly and brown hackle are used together, one hackle from these feathers can do the job of two) feathers were poorly died. A few pieces out of the middle of the long strands were good, the bottom was almost pure brown and tops maybe a light standard black/gray grizzly; very erratic.

 

FYI, Cree is not dyed. It's a natural color that is kind of a genetic mutation that is hard to replicate (hence it being so hard to find.) That being said, it looks like he tried to pass off a "grizzly variant" as cree... Bad mojo.

 

Regarding his service and track record... No way in this world I'd order anything from him based on how many issues he has had. There are lots of other hackle dealers that provide much better service.

 

ok one quick post. my bad, went straight to "dye" without thinking. I realize cree is natural, thanks for the correction. Mine served its purpose as I said.

[SilverCreek 0]

I use him as well. I've been happy; I'm kind of a one-stop-shop man, so I appreciate being able to meet my feather needs in one place.

I recently, however, ordered a couple of their custom Whiting "100 packs", and was very satisfied with the service and delivery, but the cree (described as black-white-brown grizzly, popular where grizzly and brown hackle are used together, one hackle from these feathers can do the job of two) feathers were poorly died. A few pieces out of the middle of the long strands were good, the bottom was almost pure brown and tops maybe a light standard black/gray grizzly; very erratic.

 

 

 

Cree has a huge variation. It is cross of Grizzly and Coachman Brown. I recall that Dr. Tom Whiting said that only 5% (1/20) of result in a good enough Cree for Whiting to sell. The other 95% are destroyed.

Here are some variations pulled from the internet. In the following saddle you can see that some of the saddle feathers actually have section that are coachman brown and Grizzly mixed in the same feather. Yet this is a CREE saddle. You will also note that some of the are Cree with barred black on faint brown and other look to be pure grizzly.

If you pulled feathers from this Cree Saddle to sell as Whiting 100’s, I think you would get what you are describing in your post.

This next saddle is of better quality but it still has brown and grizzly feathers. It was listed on the internet as a fantastic Cree but I don’t think so compared to my personal cree saddles.

The saddle and neck below are my personal collection of hackle. They are a Bronze Cree Neck and a Silver Cree Saddle. You will notice that the saddle actually looks very dark compared to the neck but when tied on a fly, it results in a beautiful Adams. The second is a close up of the saddle hackle

If you saw the neck and saddle together without the grading listed, most fly tiers would pick the neck as the better of the two. If a new tier saw my saddle next to the saddle in the second photo above they would pick the internet saddle. They would be wrong.

The bottom line is that I never buy hackle without seeing the neck or saddle, particularly with Cree. What you got was Cree. It may not be a good example, but it is a Cree.

[Dave G. 0]

SilverCreek, interesting !

[Harold Ray 0]

Good post and thanks for the images and explanation. It helps when someone with some knowledge on the subject explains it. I don't have a clue on Cree, never bought any, and probably never will.

 

Ray

[Jokey 0]

I'm starting to wonder when the movie version of this thread will be hitting theaters. Might be an upcoming IF4 selection? Watching that film sure would be less exhausting than reading the whole thing.

 

J

[CSB1 0]

Thread has been Sidetracked for a while.

[DCof 0]

Wow! it's me DCof, coming on line after a day of work. My post gave birth to a whole range of topics. Not sure if I should be pleased or wish I had kept my trap shut.

 

But, no offense taken. Thank you to those who stood for some version of free speech and thank you to those who stood up for good posting etiquette and clarity of words.

 

My point was to share disappointment with FE. I think I did that. Enough said on that point.

 

While here - and realizing that introducing yourself before posting is good manners...

 

I love to fish; l love to tie flies; I love being in wild places. I have been all that stuff for a big part of my 56 years. I love to spend time with people who love the outdoors, especially my sons. I spent my late teens and 20s in Canada's North, where I learned self-reliance and humility. I like people who don't take themselves too seriously. I am a Canadian. I like cold beer after a day of fishing. I work and fish in the US a lot. I am not a big talker/poster on sites like this (except for now I guess). I like this site because I can learn.

 

Cheers,

David (DCof)

[mikechell 0]

OKAY! Welcome to the active side of the house, David. You're my age ... I was in Canada when I was 13 and 14 (two weeks each year) ... maybe we met!

[barrytheguide 0]

 

I use him as well. I've been happy; I'm kind of a one-stop-shop man, so I appreciate being able to meet my feather needs in one place.

I recently, however, ordered a couple of their custom Whiting "100 packs", and was very satisfied with the service and delivery, but the cree (described as black-white-brown grizzly, popular where grizzly and brown hackle are used together, one hackle from these feathers can do the job of two) feathers were poorly died. A few pieces out of the middle of the long strands were good, the bottom was almost pure brown and tops maybe a light standard black/gray grizzly; very erratic.

 

 

 

Cree has a huge variation. It is cross of Grizzly and Coachman Brown. I recall that Dr. Tom Whiting said that only 5% (1/20) of result in a good enough Cree for Whiting to sell. The other 95% are destroyed.

Here are some variations pulled from the internet. In the following saddle you can see that some of the saddle feathers actually have section that are coachman brown and Grizzly mixed in the same feather. Yet this is a CREE saddle. You will also note that some of the are Cree with barred black on faint brown and other look to be pure grizzly.

If you pulled feathers from this Cree Saddle to sell as Whiting 100’s, I think you would get what you are describing in your post.

This next saddle is of better quality but it still has brown and grizzly feathers. It was listed on the internet as a fantastic Cree but I don’t think so compared to my personal cree saddles.

The saddle and neck below are my personal collection of hackle. They are a Bronze Cree Neck and a Silver Cree Saddle. You will notice that the saddle actually looks very dark compared to the neck but when tied on a fly, it results in a beautiful Adams. The second is a close up of the saddle hackle

If you saw the neck and saddle together without the grading listed, most fly tiers would pick the neck as the better of the two. If a new tier saw my saddle next to the saddle in the second photo above they would pick the internet saddle. They would be wrong.

The bottom line is that I never buy hackle without seeing the neck or saddle, particularly with Cree. What you got was Cree. It may not be a good example, but it is a Cree.

 

I'm not convinced that the other 95% are destroyed. Why destroy them just because the color is not "true" cree, I would sell them as variants if the quality is good. I suspect that some of the 95% are sold to FE as seconds, that's why mine arrived in a plastic bag without any Whiting packaging.

Barry (Yes that's really my name)

[josephcsylvia 0]

I only my opinion as I've never ordered from FE.

and I also dont know Barry.

 

I personally am not ok with buying something like a cape or saddle in a plastic baggie, I want factory packaging

unless im getting a steep discount.

 

Second, if you dont like what you get send it back!

 

Third if there giving you the option to send it back and it says in the description that its not factory packaged you have nothing to bit.. about!

 

My.02

[barrytheguide 0]

I only my opinion as I've never ordered from FE.

and I also dont know Barry.

 

I personally am not ok with buying something like a cape or saddle in a plastic baggie, I want factory packaging

unless im getting a steep discount.

 

Second, if you dont like what you get send it back!

 

Third if there giving you the option to send it back and it says in the description that its not factory packaged you have nothing to bit.. about!

 

My.02

I didn't send it back because that way I would have been without a cape and without my money. Given FE's history that would have seemed very likely When I challenged both FE and Whiting on the subject all I got was spin.

[DazWah 0]

whiting dont destroy any pelts, they just dye them other colours.